My first ball (need advice)

[Knight]

I'm a stroker/tweener
medium speed
low revs

I started a few weeks ago, and now I want my own ball. It seems like Hammer hits the best, so its either a NM, BW, or Pain.

I'm ordering tonight based on your advice, so tell me what you think is a all around ball that hits hard.

I dont need insane hook,just something thats controllable in most condition.

And what pin placement and drill pattern?

Thanks,
Matt

[TenPinSniper]

Seen Black Widow... I have the No Mercy and Pain.

No Mercy just rocks the pocket, like it's.... My better half, said wow that ball is fierce. Have thrown 10 and 11 in a row with it... last 6 and first 4... last 10 and first 1.

Pain really like the amount of hook. But I would not buy it again. Would be intertesed in a Toxic.

High Rev wonderful ball good amount of hook. Very versatile ball, was my go to ball all last season.

[Knight]

What drill pattern on the No Mercy? I dont want insane hook. How would the #4 pattern be for a smoother hook?

Or should I just buy the damn thing and take it to a pro shop?

[TenPinSniper]

Thats something you and the proshop need to decide. Mine is drill pattern #1. Good luck.
Personally i'd be interested in drill pattern #2 or #3 or even #7 for you.

[Lenny360]

Since it's your first ball, I'd say most drillers are going to want to do a "standard" layout. Usually it's the #1 on the drill sheets.

No Mercy is a great ball, but I wouldn't recommend it for your first. I say this for a few reasons:

1. Based on the No Mercy drilling instructions you need to know where you track is in order to place the hart on it. Since you never had your own ball, you don't know where exactly your track's going to be.

2. Second reason is that the No Mercy isn't the most versatile ball because the cover and core and very strong meaning it likes the oil. If you get stuck on drier or possibly medium lanes and this is all you have, mostly likely you'll have a hard time.

I say go with the Toxic. That ball has a very aggressive backend and you should be able to use it on just about condition you'll encounter. This ball also looks awesome.

If you order online go with about a 3" pin and 3oz top weight. That's pretty standard and should give your driller a lot of options.

[Longrodder]

I have a NM and I think it could be drilled to work for you but I tend to agree that it is not very versatile...dryer lanes would be a problem...I think. In my honest opinion I would concider a Vibe. I don't own one but have seen them thrown and for a beginner...I think it would be a good choice. It would be versatile enough to handle about any situation. In the oil...you would have to slow it down some but for me and A LOT of beginners...it is easier to slow down and stay in control than it is to speed up and stay in control. Just my opinion. Steve

[slap]

Out of those three choices I would lean toward the BW. The BW is pretty versatile so you should be able to use it on most conditons. Mine is still OOB but I know quite a few people have changed theirs.

You also wrote you don't want a ball that hooks a lot. All three balls your listed are strong hooking balls. Your best bet might be one of the Vibes.

[jedi47]

My opinion is,,,,,,,,,,Black Widow, I couldn't be happier than I am with this ball (5" pin, drilled skid/flip) on- slightly medium/ medium/almost wet lanes......can't find a dry lane in my area to save my ass (GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!), so no info there,,,,,,But, I also can't reccomend it (or any other "preformance" ball) for the Exxon Valdez oil dumping (I use the TUFF straight at the pins)

[Knight]

My area has medium to heavy oil, so a vibe is out of the question. And when it comes to hooking, I haven't had too much experience due to crappy house balls.

I can get a lot of revs if I cup the ball, but accuracy and ball delivery dont seem to be effective. It kinda bangs the lane and then hooks alot.

My issue is being so new to the sport and using crappy balls. If I used a good ball then I'd be able to tell how much hook and rev. The only thing I can judge is speed due to bad equipment.

Well I didnt order yet, but leaning towards a BW or a Pain.

I'm still confused.

[slap]

What balls have you been rolling?

[hammeredinkansas]

Don't do anything before you have either someone with lots of experience or your house pro/driller watch you bowl! There's a Hammer for every style, so don't let your driller talk you into anything else! :D

Best of luck!!!

[grayfin68]

I'm a tweener, 17-18 mph, start on 27, throw over the 2nd arrow (10), slides out to 5 or so.

My first new ball (recently) was the PAIN. Love this ball and is the most consistent in my arsenal along with the Blue Vibe.

The TOXIC was my second ball and I really like it but I don't get to use it as much because on fresh oil, it's the PAIN and I can overlap lane conditions with the PAIN. With the TOXIC, it doesn't work in heavy or fresh oil as well as the PAIN.

Since you're a stroker, I think the Blue Vibe would be a good consideration for a few reasons:

1. It has a very consistent roll, even arcihng.
2. It will hook big in light oil. For me, on light oil, I throw the Vibe on the same line as my PAIN in heavy or fresh oil.
3. On heavy or medium oil, you can still use it, you just need to move right.
4. Your stroker style may be best suited for it.
5. Price. It's the least expensive of the line aside from the Tuff (spare ball).

I'd stay away from the high-end BW or NM due to cost and you may not want that much ball (hook-wise).

Either way, consult someone you trust (hopefully your local pro or ball driller). He/she will help you figure out what is best for you.

[bruinboy07]

Hi...

I'm pretty new the sport as well, only been seriously bowling for about six months now. At any rate, I have both the Pain and the Widow, and if you're looking for a more "immediate pay-off" kind of ball, I would say go with the Pain. The Widow is one of the best of the Hammer line, in my opinion, but I love the coverstock on the Pain... I think it's called "Juiced" or something like that. Soaks up oil like crazy, but gives you a real clean reaction. The Widow is the better ball, but it took some adaptation for a beginner bowler (like you and me). At it's price point, I think the Pain is the real winner.

By the way, I currently roll the Road Hawg, Black Widow, and Toxic in that order. I keep hoping that one day maybe I'll run into a Hammer rep who will see all of my Hammer equipment and give me free stuff... chances of that happening, slim to none. But I do love their stuff...

bruinboy07

[Knight]

My local pro shop wants $145 for the Pain, drilling included, minus the inserts.

So, I'll talk to them tonight and figure this out.

Thanks for all the advice guys, and I'll let you know what happens.

[bowlerbabe]

my personal opinion is for you to either get the toxic or the doom, they would be good beginning balls for you even on medium to heavy oil. they have some hook but the dont hook off the lanes.

[bruinboy07]

Yeah, I agree with bowlerbabe. I love the Toxic. The Pain doesn't really hook off the lane, but I see your point. Depending on your drilling, of course. Doom's a great ball... someday I'll get one of those myself.

$145 for the Pain isn't a great price, but it's decent. I bought mine online (I think it was about $100 excluding shipping) and took it into my driller, and he charged me $50 anyways, cuz I didn't buy it from him. So I paid about that much anyway... so yeah... I think that's fair.

bruinboy07

[ILoveMySlingBlade]

My local pro shop wants $145 for the Pain, drilling included, minus the inserts.

So, I'll talk to them tonight and figure this out.

Thanks for all the advice guys, and I'll let you know what happens.

good luck bud, I think you will really enjoy the ball. Keep us updated..

[Knight]

Any ideas on pin placement and top weight for the Pain?

Thanks

[SCapizziJr]

i would start with a pain with a label drill. pin just under ring, cg inline. It should put you right in the middle of the hammer balls. This way you will have more options when you get your next ball. The pain also responds well to surface changes for fine tuning. lets not forget its probably the best 100 ball on the market.

[TenPinSniper]

If you can get a Toxic for 145-150 get it...

Of the Choice you listed:
1. No Mercy- Love this ball, everybody is probably right its fairly strong for a begineer, you need to learn ball control first.
2. Black Widow-have not thrown this ball, but I would buy it over a Pain
3. Pain-I have this ball thrown a 278 with it. Would not buy it again.

If you can get these: These would be better for you.
1. High Rev
2. Big Block Diesel
3. Toxic
4. Doom
5. Sharp Blade or about any Blade. Never heard of Blade that sucked. All very good reactions, strong at it price point.

[walc]

From what I have read and heard, the Toxic is an excellent choice. A friend I know has one and she said it hits like a true hammer... shes been up around the 200+ with her low games at 180s. She has been bowling for a while, but said it's a great ball for control.

I have the Black Widow but still haven't drilled it (???) so I can't really comment too much but have rolled my mates (drilled skid/flip) and it snaps late into the pocket hard!!!

Whatever choice you make you're on the right track... HAMMER!!!

[grayfin68]

My local pro shop wants $145 for the Pain, drilling included, minus the inserts.

So, I'll talk to them tonight and figure this out.

Thanks for all the advice guys, and I'll let you know what happens.

I think the Pain is a good choice also. I like it because it has a consistent roll. The Pain and Doom are great balls, but they are more angular and I'm not sure tha's good for a beginner and stroker.

[Knight]

I talked to the guy at the lanes and he said the pro shop is open tomorrow, so I'll finally get my order in the works.

I asked the guy at the desk and he said pin placement and top weight didnt matter, so lets see. Please correct this////

Thanks for all the various pieces of advice. I agree that a vibe would be a good choice. But, its mostly for dry ,Doom is good for medium oily, and the pain can handle med-oily-semi-oily. I can change the surface to fit my needs for the PAIN.

So, I'll go with a ball to learn the hook and I will not create bad habits by learning from a stroker type ball.

My money is gonna talk to the pro shop operator tomorrow.

Please give more advice.

Thanks for all the help.

[PackRat]

Pin placement have a lot to do with how a ball reacts going down the lane. Pin distance as well.

In general, keeping the pin above the fingers and to the right of the Center of Gravity (CG, heavy spot, etc) will give the ball a more skid flip reaction (late reacting)

Keeping the pin below the fingers and kicking the CG to the right will allow the ball to pick up its roll ealier and be more of an arching shot (early reacting)

Just look at the drill spec sheets listed on this site for the ball you're considering. Something middle of the road might be a good starting point for you.

A ball with a 3-5 pin distance will give you more options.

I prefer to keep my drillings constent with how the ball was designed. Most reactive balls tend to be skid/flip, particle lend themselves to arching tyupe shots.

My Big Deal (particle ball) is a 2" pin below and to the right of the ring finger, the CG below center line of the grip and about an inch farther right of the pin with a weight hole even with the thumb about 2" right of the CG. Gives the ball a nice pick up on it's roll with a "pop" at the end.

Hope this helps

[Ray75]

Most good pro shops will tell ya a pin of 2 to 3 out is the easiest to drill. Top weight doesn't matter as much just because it can be adjusted in the drilling. Being a new player and learning a hook, I would go with the Black Widow. It seems to be very predictable to me with the all purpose drilling. I throw a nice hook with med revs. Ball works great for me, and my wife (who is also a new bowler) can also throw it quite well. Out of all of this, it is YOUR decision to make. Don't let the pro shop talk you into something you don't want!!! Tell them how you want the drilling and don't be shy about it. Your the one who has to live with it, not the guy behind the drill......

[grayfin68]

I talked to the guy at the lanes and he said the pro shop is open tomorrow, so I'll finally get my order in the works.

I asked the guy at the desk and he said pin placement and top weight didnt matter, so lets see. Please correct this////

Thanks for all the various pieces of advice. I agree that a vibe would be a good choice. But, its mostly for dry ,Doom is good for medium oily, and the pain can handle med-oily-semi-oily. I can change the surface to fit my needs for the PAIN.

So, I'll go with a ball to learn the hook and I will not create bad habits by learning from a stroker type ball.

My money is gonna talk to the pro shop operator tomorrow.

Please give more advice.

Thanks for all the help.


I think you'll be happy if you go with the PAIN. It was my first new ball in a lot of years and my average improved a lot, almost 20 pins. Keep in mind that I've been practicing too.

I know another guy in my league that is just learning how to throw a hook and he has a PAIN and he's doing well with it. He likes to play right in the middle of the oil and he still gets about 5-10 boards of hook in the middle. I wish he'd go more outside though because he has plenty of revs and the ball to do it.

[bruinboy07]

I second what Packrat has said... pin distance and pin placement are pretty important. Depending on the skill of your driller, however, in most cases it won't matter. As long as your pro shop operator can make the ball do what you want it to do, you're in good shape. If you're buying the ball from the pro shop, he'll/she'll hopefully have the right matchup for you on hand. For the Pain, you might want a more gradual arc (early) but having never seen you bowl I don't know. So make sure you clarify with the driller exactly what you want, so as not to be disappointed. The Pain's a great ball, and I think you'll do just fine with it.

Best of luck!

bruinboy07

[ILoveMySlingBlade]

the pin placement is key but the cg, etc is virtually meaningless. it is one of the biggest myths in bowling that your pin length has more than barely any effect on the roll of the ball. Pin placement as it has been explained is everything.

To prove my point, here is a video made by brunswick using the throwbot.....

it was very educational to me the first time I watched it.

http://www.brunswickbowling.com/uploads/images/1340/USBC_proposed_rule_changes_-_CG-Distance_informartion.pdf

click the link for the video

[grayfin68]

the pin placement is key but the cg, etc is virtually meaningless. it is one of the biggest myths in bowling that your pin length has more than barely any effect on the roll of the ball. Pin placement as it has been explained is everything.

To prove my point, here is a video made by brunswick using the throwbot.....

it was very educational to me the first time I watched it.

http://www.brunswickbowling.com/uploads/images/1340/USBC_proposed_rule_changes_-_CG-Distance_informartion.pdf

click the link for the video

I was under the impression that pin length has more to do with drilling options than how the ball rolls.

[TenPinSniper]

I was under the impression that pin length has more to do with drilling options than how the ball rolls.

That would be top weight. Effect things like if you need a weight hole.

Here is the skinny as I see it.
Pin Length: Short gives arching motion. Long give you more lengthen.
Top Weight: Give you options on drilling around 3oz of top weight is good.
Drilling: has very little to do with hook. As I have said before.
Core: Big core generally give more hook potential, than smaller cores.
Weight Holes: Pretty much useless.
Coverstock: This is where its at. Approx. 80% of hook come from here.

If you want to change ball reaction... cover cover cover.

Here is what you can change with Abralon to Polish. (Starting with earliest roll, go to max lengthen.)
180
320
500
1000
2000
4000
Polishing at any stage to add lengthen. Polish is just another form of grit, or grit reduction.

180 grit most surface, 4000 grit least surface.

[TenPinSniper]

You can throw ANY ball you want if you learn to adjust. So you could get a Black Widow or No Mercy if you wanted.

Basically, here is my rule to Ball selection, read everything you can or want to read. Then buy what you want.

Dont take our recommendations, read what we say about each ball.

High Rev: (this might be harder to find)
Not the sharpest back end ball, but strong on the backend. This is a go to ball.

Raw Hammer Pain:
Jumpy, not very predictable on dry lanes, or dry outside. If you have lots of oil might be a good ball. Now I have mine at 500 grit, seems to have tamed this ball alittle.

No Mercy:
This is one of the baddest ball I have ever thrown period. Make your opponents beg for Mercy when thrown properly. Loved it at 4000 grit, lightly sanded to 2000 grit, I like it there too. The bad seems to pick dirt fast have to clean alot, maybe even during league.

Raw Hammer Doom:
Wanted to get one. Was recommended a Pain... I know by the proshop, but he knows my game. I dont hate the Pain.
My teammate has this ball very angular, sharp backend.

This leads me to my Toxic recommendation from earlier.

Raw Hammer Toxic:
Suppose to be a Doom, but better. Maybe a into between of the Raw Hammer series. I would buy this ball over a Black Widow. I know I'm going to get lynched for that statement. I think the Widow is a good ball also. Just not interested. Hype has killed it for me. Plus, I have seen a gas mask core ball I really liked. If I was in the market for a ball, I'd get a TOXIC.

Mid-range ball is the best untold secert in bowling.... I feel in love with them when the best ever mid-range Blade series was introduced.

Mid-range ball, have old core usually, old proven cores. Not always. Most always have a new or very recent hooking coverstock.

[grayfin68]

You can throw ANY ball you want if you learn to adjust. So you could get a Black Widow or No Mercy if you wanted.

Basically, here is my rule to Ball selection, read everything you can or want to read. Then buy what you want.

Dont take our recommendations, read what we say about each ball.

High Rev: (this might be harder to find)
Not the sharpest back end ball, but strong on the backend. This is a go to ball.

Raw Hammer Pain:
Jumpy, not very predictable on dry lanes, or dry outside. If you have lots of oil might be a good ball. Now I have mine at 500 grit, seems to have tamed this ball alittle.

No Mercy:
This is one of the baddest ball I have ever thrown period. Make your opponents beg for Mercy when thrown properly. Loved it at 4000 grit, lightly sanded to 2000 grit, I like it there too. The bad seems to pick dirt fast have to clean alot, maybe even during league.

Raw Hammer Doom:
Wanted to get one. Was recommended a Pain... I know by the proshop, but he knows my game. I dont hate the Pain.
My teammate has this ball very angular, sharp backend.

This leads me to my Toxic recommendation from earlier.

Raw Hammer Toxic:
Suppose to be a Doom, but better. Maybe a into between of the Raw Hammer series. I would buy this ball over a Black Widow. I know I'm going to get lynched for that statement. I think the Widow is a good ball also. Just not interested. Hype has killed it for me. Plus, I have seen a gas mask core ball I really liked. If I was in the market for a ball, I'd get a TOXIC.

Mid-range ball is the best untold secert in bowling.... I feel in love with them when the best ever mid-range Blade series was introduced.

Mid-range ball, have old core usually, old proven cores. Not always. Most always have a new or very recent hooking coverstock.

I wouldn't go as far as to say the PAIN is unpredictable on dry, it's just too much ball for those conditions. I have one and I go to the Vibe on dry.

As far as the TOXIC, I agree, it's also a great ball, but it's also hard to keep in the pocket on dry lanes. Mine does a "left turn clyde" when the lanes start breaking down late in the evening (second shift).

In my opinion, for someone just learning how to throw a hook, you should get a ball that rolls evenly and hooks a lot because most people when they are learning, typically don't have a lot of rotation and need something agressive.

The reason, I'd say the PAIN over the BW or NM is for cost purposes and I've had and seen others have great success with it in similar instances. Our pro shop guys are not Hammer Heads, yet they recommend the PAIN, TOXIC and BW to a lot of people. For some reason, they don't seem too keen on the NM.

The other ball they recommend to new bowlers or people just learning to throw a hook is the MoRich Awesome Hook. I can't say anything about that since I don't use MoRich stuff. Similar performance characteristics and similar price as the RAW line.

[slap]

I bet they don't recommend the NM for the reasons stated earlier in this thread. There isn't a "simple label" drill for the NM, you need to have well defined PAP and Ball Track. Not good for a newbie whose PAP and Track may changed as they improve their release.

Plus I've read that the first shipment of NMs were misaligned and that threw a bunch of people off.



I picked up a WMB by MoRich on clearance and it lives up to the hype. Smooth rolling with great control and carry. OOB it eats oil so it stays in my tournament tote. League night is Hammertime!

[two hands]

If your looking for a great ball it would be the No Mercy its awsome. Since I have had the ball I have had three 800 and three 300 and 299. Its awsome.

[Knight]

My Pain was delivered and its getting drilled tomorrow at 4:30pm.

I'm thinking of getting the MEDIUM RG STRONG LAYOUT, but I'll have the pro shop guy watch me bowl and go from there.

Thanks,

[Knight]

I got my ball drilled and decided on 2 finger inserts and no thumb. It didnt work out as good as I expected.

Thumb was too tight, so tight that I threw the ball in the air a few times. The staff was helpful in trying to get the fit right cause the proshop guy was oiling lanes for league.

I think I'll get a thumb slug and go from there until I get a clean release.

He drilled it up with a MEDIUM RG STRONG LAYOUT with a weight hole. The ball hits like a ton of bricks when my thumb doesnt stick.

Thanks for all the help guys, I'm satisfied with my Hammer.

[slap]

I'm glad that you're having a good time with the ball so far. Make sure you take that ball back to the pro shop to fix that thumb hole.