"Getting Deeper"

[PASSIONATEBOWLER]

Hello guys. I've read the 'Bowl4fun' site, but was wondering if anyone had any other tips for playing deeper (inside 3/4 arrow)? I still can't seem to master a solid technique. I've moved my feet further left, I've angled my body, but still end up in light pocket hits.

-- Do you guys release the ball differently when you play inside?
-- Do you move further back on the approach (on dryer lanes)?
-- Do you loft the ball more (on dryer lanes)?

My goal for the summer is to develop an inside shot. But, I'm hoping it's not going to take all summer to do this.

[zombie]

this is tough but when i play "deeper" im usually not taking too much too seriously but when I do I: stand in my normal stance (middle dot) and walk towards the gutter (i kind of loop around it). i'm bent way down and moving alot slower pace than usuall b/c the ball reaction comes from my arm and not my whole body. I keep my wrist cuffed and kind of turn my shoulder (the one not carrying the ball) towards the lane, then I crank the hell out of the ball, not full on tear my shoulder out but enough to get some good revs on it. I skid it out past the middle arrow and watch it come back. its hard playing deeper b/c i feel that you have to look further down the lane at the range finders instead of just rolling over the mark like i do when i play down and in. i put way less hand into the backside of the ball to create those revs and slow it WAY down (13 mph), its a really hard shot to get used to. good luck and i hope this helps just a little.

[aigaios]

I change my release considerably when I play inside. I really wind on it and rotate around the side a lot more. I usually try to use a release that gives me more than 75 degrees axis rotation. I don't move further back on the approach unless I raise the ball in my stance, and the only time I loft it out there is when I'm already using my spare ball and playing deeper than 17-18. Hope that helps.

[bluerrpilot]

When I have to play that deep (left of the 4th arrow) the only thing I think about is getting my trailing leg out of the way as soon as possible. That way I can still release the ball next to my ankle and my shoulders are open but still square to the target line.

[gripnripwatchitflip]

First off only play deep when the lane calls for it, and I wouldnt recommend changing ball speed, until your a scratch bowler. The reason for this is by then your game is solid. If you try too many things too soon, it creates bad habits. It only takes a minute to create a bad habit, and a long time to rid yourself of it. I also dont recommend ever rotating your shoulder any more than your normal shot. If the back ends are moving enough, or your ball can create the back end, then move deep.
I play 4th 5th and 6th arrow, and use the same approach, the same lift, if I do change my release its to create more skid.
Good Luck to ya, let me know how it goes.

[Thepainscoming]

Well when i went bowling yesterday with BB Pearl, he told me to move in. I felt much more comfortable there and shot 244. I like it, i just have to increase my speed to play straighter.

[dw800seeker]

When I have to play that deep (left of the 4th arrow) the only thing I think about is getting my trailing leg out of the way as soon as possible. That way I can still release the ball next to my ankle and my shoulders are open but still square to the target line.

I agree with getting trail leg out of the way! That helps my game by getting the ball to finish stronger whether I am playing more inside or my normal between 10-15 game!

[Street Racer]

this is how i have been shotting all of my high games, 277, 278x2 and a 298(and its also how i shoot basicly 24/7 lol). it takes some time to perfect it, you do need revs tho to shot this kind of angle or it will just not come back hard enough....
anymore question just ask i will be more then happy to try and answer them

[PASSIONATEBOWLER]

Thanks everyone. You guys have definitely given me some things to consider. I agree with the remark about not trying too much too soon. I'll try taking it a step at a time, and hopefully progress from there.

[grayfin68]

Some of us simply don't have the revs and/or equipment to make a deep inside move. I'm in the same boat you're in. I can only go so far inside before the ball just won't come back.

It's also a matter of are you wanting to make a deeper inside out, back to in mover or simply play inside?

I'm sure with some instruction, you can learn how to get more revs or whatever you need to do. After all, Walter Ray now has the capability to do it, but that was a pretty recent discovery for him and he's a top level pro.

[Thepainscoming]

Some of us simply don't have the revs and/or equipment to make a deep inside move. I'm in the same boat you're in. I can only go so far inside before the ball just won't come back.

It's also a matter of are you wanting to make a deeper inside out, back to in mover or simply play inside?

I'm sure with some instruction, you can learn how to get more revs or whatever you need to do. After all, Walter Ray now has the capability to do it, but that was a pretty recent discovery for him and he's a top level pro.

Walter Ray has always been able to do it. Well i don't think i have very many revs on my ball and i can do it. It still comes back with power. All i have to do is slow down and put a few more revs on it.

[jman69]

I play a very deep line and with a lot of revs. I have a hard time slowing down my ball speed so I have to have revs to make it come back. My team mate can do it to an extent by slowing his speed down but it is like 10-12 mph and I throw 16-17. That speed with low revs would not come back too easy.:eek: :cool:

[PASSIONATEBOWLER]

Walter Ray has always been able to do it. Well i don't think i have very many revs on my ball and i can do it. It still comes back with power. All i have to do is slow down and put a few more revs on it.

Yes, I'm thinking that's part of my problem: not having enough revs on the ball. But, maybe it's in my swing as well...

I want to play deeper inside when the lanes start drying up and I start having a difficult time keeping the ball from going left of the pocket.

It's a real handicap not having the ability to go deeper - in my opinion.

On a positive note: My average has gone from a 169 at the start of the season (September), to a 179. And I owe a lot of it to you guys (my fellow Hammerheads), my equipment, and the passion I have for the game. :o

[gripnripwatchitflip]

Everyone seems to think its about revs, and its not. Watch the senior tour sometime, and you will see that they also can play the inside shot. Now of course the ball is drilled to react to that line. Their are many ways to get used to that line and carrying at that angle.

As for Walter just learning to play deep, thats a farse, I bowled against him many times, including a 2nd place finish to him in a regional. He can hook the length of the lane as well as play deep. His skill level allows him to select where he wants to play the lane, same with Norm Duke. They both just opt for the straighter line.

Good luck with it, talk to your local pro, and let us know how it turns out.

[grayfin68]

Walter Ray has always been able to do it. Well i don't think i have very many revs on my ball and i can do it. It still comes back with power. All i have to do is slow down and put a few more revs on it.

That may be true, but I've been watching WR bowl since he came on the tour and I never once saw him crank until a tournament earlier this year.

Yes, slowing down and adding revs is one way to get the ball to hook more... obviously.

Not anyone can just turn a magic switch on and become a cranker though. I've tried it and can't do it.

And as far as ball speed, I know crankers who throw upwards of 18 mph without exotic layouts or changing the cover of their ball. It's about revs.

[bluerrpilot]

I want to play deeper inside when the lanes start drying up and I start having a difficult time keeping the ball from going left of the pocket.

It's a real handicap not having the ability to go deeper - in my opinion.




This is the right attitude to have. You dont need to hook the ball 40 boards to carry strikes. But when the condition calls for it, its nice to be able to comfortably adjust to that shot.

Personally, I have always thought that the straighter down and in shot will always carry better. But you cant always play there.

[gripnripwatchitflip]

That may be true, but I've been watching WR bowl since he came on the tour and I never once saw him crank until a tournament earlier this year.

Yes, slowing down and adding revs is one way to get the ball to hook more... obviously.

Not anyone can just turn a magic switch on and become a cranker though. I've tried it and can't do it.

And as far as ball speed, I know crankers who throw upwards of 18 mph without exotic layouts or changing the cover of their ball. It's about revs.

1980 when Walter Ray made like 600$ on tour until 1982/3, I believe he made like 10 grand that year, he hooked the ball a ton, it wasnt til 83/84ish he went straighter and started making career money. Ive bowled with this man many times, ate lunch with him, and know for a fact he has always been able to hook the ball where and when he wanted. Watch the mid 80's pba events and youll see, especially when in the early 90's when he threw an out of the box dull crush/r.
And its not about revs, watch the seniors, its lane intelligence and angle of entry. Chris Barnes will attest to that. Knowing what your equipment will and wont do, and what YOU can do with your equipment.

[Thepainscoming]

That may be true, but I've been watching WR bowl since he came on the tour and I never once saw him crank until a tournament earlier this year.

Yes, slowing down and adding revs is one way to get the ball to hook more... obviously.

Not anyone can just turn a magic switch on and become a cranker though. I've tried it and can't do it.

And as far as ball speed, I know crankers who throw upwards of 18 mph without exotic layouts or changing the cover of their ball. It's about revs.

I am definetly not a cranker, it only has like 325 rpm's on it when i play deep, now i do have a scorchin inferno so that might help.

[ravenhammer]

Walter Ray has always been able to do it.

You've got that right!

As far as playing inside the oil pattern has to be right as well.

[Thepainscoming]

You've got that right!

As far as playing inside the oil pattern has to be right as well.

Thank you, he has always done it he just doesn't have to on tv.

[grayfin68]

Thank you, he has always done it he just doesn't have to on tv.

From PBA.com

At the 2006 U.S. Open, the 1:1 oil ratio of the Sport Bowling pattern had even the world's best bowlers shaking their heads. Williams, for example, prefers playing up the boards, but decided to move into the middle of the lane during match play.

"That pattern is really tough," Williams said. "They put an even amount of oil across the lane. The outside of the lane doesn't get used and it's smoother. You can play out there, but you have to go straight. This year I was conservative. In match play, I was throwing the ball as slow as I could left of third arrow to eight. I got inside of 20 a couple of times in match play, but mostly I was between the third and fourth arrows. It comes down to execution. You basically had to throw great shots.

"I like to play outside if I can. If I find a good reaction out there, I'm going to give it a try. The young kids hook the ball. It takes talent to throw all those revs. That gives them an advantage. I don't have the revs, so I slow my speed down. I can usually hold my own. But I'm fighting a battle when I'm playing inside with these young guys. I'm at a disadvantage in that respect."

[PASSIONATEBOWLER]

From PBA.com

At the 2006 U.S. Open, the 1:1 oil ratio of the Sport Bowling pattern had even the world's best bowlers shaking their heads. Williams, for example, prefers playing up the boards, but decided to move into the middle of the lane during match play.

"That pattern is really tough," Williams said. "They put an even amount of oil across the lane. The outside of the lane doesn't get used and it's smoother. You can play out there, but you have to go straight. This year I was conservative. In match play, I was throwing the ball as slow as I could left of third arrow to eight. I got inside of 20 a couple of times in match play, but mostly I was between the third and fourth arrows. It comes down to execution. You basically had to throw great shots.

"I like to play outside if I can. If I find a good reaction out there, I'm going to give it a try. The young kids hook the ball. It takes talent to throw all those revs. That gives them an advantage. I don't have the revs, so I slow my speed down. I can usually hold my own. But I'm fighting a battle when I'm playing inside with these young guys. I'm at a disadvantage in that respect."

Wow. Guess that supports everything you've been saying.

Thanks Grayfin: I'm a huge Walter Ray fan.