Hook Again?

[ae_guy30]

My bowling center is running some special: resurfacing, hook again, and new grips for like $40. Thinking about using it on my dead widow:( Has anybody tried it? If so what were your results...

I have given it a bath several times since i first saw this forum, have resurfaced it and have cleaned it throughly after every set of games. The ball has at least 200-250+ games on it (I bought it last October). A buddy of mine told me that they tend to do that...I guess the question is would it be worth it to try????

[dw800seeker]

On your dead widow,how many games since last resurfacing? I am wondering if the ball is really dead or if you are remembering it reacting differently than it really did. Assuming it really is dead. Why not take it in for a servicing?

You could probably save a little by just having proshop take it down to 500 wet and then back up to 4000 abraloned. Seems like it should not cost $40 for that? I would think a wet polish and then 4000 abralon should not cost more than $20. Do you really need new grips?

Good luck with it.

BTW: I know at my lanes that the proprietors redid all the lanes and then started laying out more oil. My Black Widow was not handling the new situation at the lanes so I started collecting stronger balls. Compared to my stronger bowling balls, the BW seems a little weak. Now, that it is getting hotter, it seems the lanes are drying out (that may be totally off, I do not know) now all my other equipment is too strong so I am coming back to my Toxic and Black Widow.

[TenPinSniper]

Dont thinks thats a real special... but a good market ideal. Plus, most people probably need to consider this.

Hook Again does restore ball reaction, put my High Rev and Vicious, throught it for a total of three times.

Hook Again: $15
Resurface: $15
Grips: $6
-----------------
Total $36 plus tax

Those price may vary shop to shop, guess what it get down to is what you pay for grips and resurfacing... seen Hook Again for $20, maybe even more.

[mongoliantreesloth]

Instead of Hook Again you could always use cat litter (the white crystal sort not the grey pellets).

Grind the crystals into a fine powder and place in a plastic bag along with your ball. Leave somewhere warm (not hot) for a few days, turning the bag slightly every so often so as each part of the ball gets a turn at being on the bottom. You'll know it's worked as the powder will be all claggy and horrid when the ball comes out at the end.

Remove ball, wash as you normally would, then hey-ho and away you go :)

[Quest36X]

Cat litter? Are you serious? Are you that concerned about saving money?

You do realize bowling balls are investments in your ability and you want to cut every corner to save money?

By the way, cat litter does not have the same chemical composition as the Hook Again Treatment.

This is by far, the most asanine thing I've read on this forum EVER!

This is coming from a person who claims his thumb is going to fall off, learn to bowl get a clue and do not advise people on care for their bowling balls.

You do not know what you are talking about. I hope that no one tries this course of action.

[MessiahsHammer]

Cat litter? Are you serious? Are you that concerned about saving money?

You do realize bowling balls are investments in your ability and you want to cut every corner to save money?

By the way, cat litter does not have the same chemical composition as the Hook Again Treatment.

This is by far, the most asanine thing I've read on this forum EVER!

This is coming from a person who claims his thumb is going to fall off, learn to bowl get a clue and do not advise people on care for their bowling balls.

You do not know what you are talking about. I hope that no one tries this course of action.


LMAO... jesus your brutal :D... On a nicer level I would have to agree I would never use the cat litter... Where did this idea come from?

[Trydent]

Cat litter? Are you serious? Are you that concerned about saving money?

You do realize bowling balls are investments in your ability and you want to cut every corner to save money?

By the way, cat litter does not have the same chemical composition as the Hook Again Treatment.

This is by far, the most asanine thing I've read on this forum EVER!

This is coming from a person who claims his thumb is going to fall off, learn to bowl get a clue and do not advise people on care for their bowling balls.

You do not know what you are talking about. I hope that no one tries this course of action.

El Oh El!!!

I agree though. Cat Litter? Probably the worst maintenance technique i have ever heard of in my life lol. Thats along the lines of putting you're ball in ovens......

[mongoliantreesloth]

Cat litter? Are you serious? Are you that concerned about saving money?No, however I like exploring different possibilities as I have an enquiring mind and spare time

By the way, cat litter does not have the same chemical composition as the Hook Again Treatment.I know. Neither does Columbia 300's offering though. CPR it's called in case you didn't know.

This is by far, the most asanine thing I've read on this forum EVER!
I seriously doubt that.

This is coming from a person who claims his thumb is going to fall off, learn to bowl get a clue and do not advise people on care for their bowling balls. Firstly my thumb isn't going to "fall off". I've told you a million times not to exaggerate ;) Anyway, I look at it this way: you don't have to be as good a driver as Michael Schumacher to know you have to put oil in the engine and air in the tyres.
You do not know what you are talking about. I hope that no one tries this course of action. I have tried it on my Show Time and the ball was noticeably livelier afterwards. I would suggest people do try it, even if only as a trial using an old ball. If it doesn't work then nothing is lost. If, however it does.....

Anyway, I got the idea from another forum
http://www.totalbowling.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=8470&highlight=litter
http://www.totalbowling.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=12940&highlight=litter
http://www.totalbowling.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=5813&highlight=litter

(you'll have to register before you can view the threads. If you do, please put me down as the referrer - mongoliantreesloth).

Seems to work well enough for us rednecks downunder;) You should maybe try it before decrying its merits.

[Street Racer]

haha i'm so trying that sometime(and yes i am broke atm)

i thought it was crazy at first seeing cat litter but hey whatever works....


Us aussie these days are getting more crazy and crazy....


Dr Blade

[Toolman-Tim]

Cat liter has the same results as floor dry when used on concrete floors when used to remove oil spots, so this idea does not suprise me. would I try it? I would have to be desprate.

[BradM]

Cat litter? Are you serious? Are you that concerned about saving money?

You do realize bowling balls are investments in your ability and you want to cut every corner to save money?

By the way, cat litter does not have the same chemical composition as the Hook Again Treatment.

This is by far, the most asanine thing I've read on this forum EVER!

This is coming from a person who claims his thumb is going to fall off, learn to bowl get a clue and do not advise people on care for their bowling balls.

You do not know what you are talking about. I hope that no one tries this course of action.


You should probably read your posts before you submit them. Take 5 deep breaths and rewrite them.

Have you ever had a bowling ball sit in a warm area for any amount of time? Noticed that the ball has had oil come to the surface and wiped it down? If not I don't believe that you work at a pro shop. Why is it such a far stretch that if you left it some place warm with some thing made to absorb liquid around it that it would aid in reducing the amount of oil contained in the ball?

Why don't you try and lose your attitude. Just because you have a job in a pro shop doesn't make you special and it damn sure doesn't mean that you know EVERYTHING about bowling and ball care.

(Please note that this post is not directed at every person that works in a pro shop, especially everyone else that I can think of that works in a pro shop and posts here.)

[technik]

You could probably save a little by just having proshop take it down to 500 wet

Compared to my stronger bowling balls, the BW seems a little weak... now all my other equipment is too strong so I am coming back to my Toxic and Black Widow.

i have to agree with ^^.

i too have an older BW and it was shiny black filled with oil and i thought it was dead. to revive it:

bathe and cleaned it until you see the red swirls clearly
sand it down to 1000 grit and clean with energizer
then finally restore it similar to its OOB wet polish it with 1000grit for $5 at my proshop


i rolled it last Monday on a THS and it was hitting the outside and screaming back to the pocket... :eek: i was surprised, it's Alive! :D


cat litter? id rather not, every1 might be covering their noses at my center :D

[slap]

Cat litter? Are you serious? Are you that concerned about saving money?

You do realize bowling balls are investments in your ability and you want to cut every corner to save money?

By the way, cat litter does not have the same chemical composition as the Hook Again Treatment.

This is by far, the most asanine thing I've read on this forum EVER!

This is coming from a person who claims his thumb is going to fall off, learn to bowl get a clue and do not advise people on care for their bowling balls.

You do not know what you are talking about. I hope that no one tries this course of action.

LOL....I almost spit coffee all over the keyboard.

As strange as it is, I've read about the "cat litter method" before. There was a heated debate on br.com about it a few months back.

From my understanding you're supposed to use a bucket and incase the ball in litter, then place the bucket in a warm enviroment for a week. I assume the idea is that the heat will draw oil to the surface and the litter will act as a wicker.

[Fizziii]

...
Have you ever had a bowling ball sit in a warm area for any amount of time? Noticed that the ball has had oil come to the surface and wiped it down?...

A guy I bowled with on Monday left his ball in his car all day. When he took it out oil was beaded on the surface. Is heating a ball to get oil out really that bad? (He says every now and then he puts his in his oven at say 110°.

Isn't this similar to using really hot water with the difference being that the oil collects on the ball instead of the surface of the water?

I've never tried either of these, and I'm relatively new to this much ball maintenance, so please bear with me.

[BradM]

A guy I bowled with on Monday left his ball in his car all day. When he took it out oil was beaded on the surface. Is heating a ball to get oil out really that bad? (He says every now and then he puts his in his oven at say 110°.

Isn't this similar to using really hot water with the difference being that the oil collects on the ball instead of the surface of the water?

I've never tried either of these, and I'm relatively new to this much ball maintenance, so please bear with me.

I think it is a lot like using one of these machines:

http://www.cookspheremachine.com/serv02.htm

[Quest36X]

When you bake your bowling ball or leave it in the car, it is true that oil does come to the surface. However, and I've talked about this at length before, is not just oil. You are bringing to the surface the very thing that helps absorb it in plasticizer. If you choose to manage your balls this way it is certainly your prerogative, however, it isn't suggested, nor should it be.

And treesloth, I never even mentioned Columbia's CPR, and for good reason, I have used it to no success. I have used the Hook Again center for years and never had one problem with it. As far a cat litter goes, I am sure it is absorbent, however, aren't a lot of things? I guess, my point in my first point was that it seems that people go the extra mile to find something to save money.

In my opinion, as biased as it may be, I can not fathom the very idea of possibly ruining a bowling ball. They are not cheap. You should understand when you buy this investment that you are to take care of it (no matter what). I understand all of us do not have access to the facilities that I do, but home cooked solutions do not always work. Your pro shop is open for a reason, there is something that they know that you necessarily do not.

I am not here as a know it all, I am here merely to help guide and direct people when necessary. As far as this post goes, I'm done.

And good luck with your cat litter smelling balls.

[Quest36X]

One more thing to add to the post...

Can you control the temperature outside? How do you determine warm? If there are logical answers here, I'd love to reply a rebuttal.

Point is, bowling balls' temperature is very important. With constant changing of temperatures effects both the coverstock and core.

Again, it's not just oil......

[Fizziii]

Can you control the temperature outside? How do you determine warm? If there are logical answers here, I'd love to reply a rebuttal.


While we're going down this path, what's the right temperature to use for a bath? I've seen it mention turning your tap water on as hot as it will get... well, that'd adjustable at the water heater...

Point is, bowling balls' temperature is very important. With constant changing of temperatures effects both the coverstock and core.

That's one reason I bring my bowling ball into work when I go bowling. I keep it at roughly room temperature all the time. I haven't hit the point where my balls are reacting less, so it's not a big issue, just looking for more knowledge for when I do need to really clean the ball and bring it back to life.

[Gryndryno]

When you bake your bowling ball or leave it in the car, it is true that oil does come to the surface. However, and I've talked about this at length before, is not just oil. You are bringing to the surface the very thing that helps absorb it in plasticizer.
Plasticizer is something that helps create the pores that absorb the oil, they don't absorb the oil itself. The idea of anything besides oil leaving the ball within normal "baking" temps (110-130) is crazy. Rapid heating and cooling of the ball increases the risk of separation of either the core or the shell from the remainder of the ball. But the idea that the liquid that comes out of a properly heated ball is some magic "plasticizer" that at 130 degrees has separated itself from the coverstock from with which it was combined before the coverstock was even poured, it crazy talk. I forgive you, but you know just enough about the process of how chemically these balls are able to absorb oil to get you in trouble when you make certain off the wall assumptions.

but yes, it is of course only oil.....

[Gryndryno]

While we're going down this path, what's the right temperature to use for a bath? I've seen it mention turning your tap water on as hot as it will get... well, that'd adjustable at the water heater...



That's one reason I bring my bowling ball into work when I go bowling. I keep it at roughly room temperature all the time. I haven't hit the point where my balls are reacting less, so it's not a big issue, just looking for more knowledge for when I do need to really clean the ball and bring it back to life.

constant temperature is the smart way to go,

water temperature raised gradually to 130 max would be a safe yet productive guideline.

[NastyNate]

I have used my widow alot and it was dead I gave it a bath (JUST HOT WATER NO CLEANERS) and it screams.. but this is the only ball that seems to have this problem. I dont mind it due to the fact this ball is wicked when its Clean.

[Quest36X]

So you think plasticizer won't come out of your bowling ball?

plasticizer

An admixture used with concrete or mortar mix to make it workable with relatively little water.

Why not? It's a liquid base, so is oil...

I know of what I speak.

Please reference this link. Thank you for reading.

http://www.ebonite.com/products/accessories/hook_again/whyballsdie.php

[slap]

Cat litter? Are you serious? Are you that concerned about saving money?

You do realize bowling balls are investments in your ability and you want to cut every corner to save money?

By the way, cat litter does not have the same chemical composition as the Hook Again Treatment.

This is by far, the most asanine thing I've read on this forum EVER!

This is coming from a person who claims his thumb is going to fall off, learn to bowl get a clue and do not advise people on care for their bowling balls.

You do not know what you are talking about. I hope that no one tries this course of action.

One more thing to add to the post...

Can you control the temperature outside? How do you determine warm? If there are logical answers here, I'd love to reply a rebuttal.

Point is, bowling balls' temperature is very important. With constant changing of temperatures effects both the coverstock and core.

Again, it's not just oil......

yep, especially here in new england. the weather here changes rapidly.

maybe some one here is brave enough to test the litter method?

[BradM]

Please reference this link. Thank you for reading.

http://www.ebonite.com/products/accessories/hook_again/whyballsdie.php


Excellent link, thanks. But it doesn't say anthing about migration through heating of the bowling ball. It's all about compression according to that article.

But it does bring up a valid point for you. Is it really plasticizer that is leaving the ball and restoring the hooking potential to balls that have only been subjected to heating rather than other surface modifications such as a resurface or sanding?

From what I read, the desaturation of the plasticizer by heating the ball would be a beneficial. If it has reached the point that the plasticizer has started becoming a negative effect on the balls reaction, why not remove it?

Hmm...

[Trydent]

Plasticizer is something that helps create the pores that absorb the oil, they don't absorb the oil itself. The idea of anything besides oil leaving the ball within normal "baking" temps (110-130) is crazy. Rapid heating and cooling of the ball increases the risk of separation of either the core or the shell from the remainder of the ball. But the idea that the liquid that comes out of a properly heated ball is some magic "plasticizer" that at 130 degrees has separated itself from the coverstock from with which it was combined before the coverstock was even poured, it crazy talk. I forgive you, but you know just enough about the process of how chemically these balls are able to absorb oil to get you in trouble when you make certain off the wall assumptions.

but yes, it is of course only oil.....

I agree with this 100% however i don't bake my balls, but i left mine in my car while i was working. it didnt get over 85 degrees out, granted it was hotter in my trunk. I have a hard time believing my balls are leaking out "Plasticizer" from them lol. As stated i do NOT bake my balls, but not for the reason of "Plasticizer" coming out. I do not bake them because i think over a prolonged period of baking balls it will make the ball brittle from all the heating and cooling. Don't get me wrong i don't advise baking balls in ovens, or cars. But thats a personal preference, i dont use rubbing alcohol either. People i bowl with swear by it. But to each his own.

[Rowdy]

Quest36-The cat litter idea has been around for a long time.You must be new to the game not to have heard of it.By the way,in case you think this is some half-baked idea,try calling Hammers tech support.THEY will tell you that THEY use it on their own balls!!!We keep a bucket in the pro shop at our lanes and I have a bicket of my own.All you need is a 5 gal bucket and a bag of cat litter from Wal-Mart.3 bucks.Pour about 3-4 inches in the bucket put the ball and cover the rest of the way with the cat litter.Cover TIGHTLY with tin foil and leave somewhere warm.Usally leave mine in the carport for about 3-4 days.Pull it out,wipe it off and clean it with whatever you like.I use Ebonite's Energizer.Just because YOU haven't heard of something or disagree with someones idea,that's no reason to dump on them that way.We are all trying to help each other bowl the best we can,and supporting each others accomplishments.A lot of us live waaaaay out in the boonies,so if we can find a cheaper,easier way to do something we're gonna try it.SO,play nice or take your ball and move on down to the end two lanes.You know,the ones with the bumpers on them!!!:D
Weapons of Mass Destruction:
Black Widow
Bud Viz
High Game-289

[Quest36X]

No one has gotten a point across here. I'm not saying it hasn't been done, I'm not saying that it doesn't do some good. I'm trying to understand why people think chemically it does the same job as other methods. I'm not trying to tell you that it's incorrect, I'm telling you that it hasn't been extensively researched and that the byproduct of doing so may be bad.

I've been in the game since '88, in the pro shop since '96 so I do know of what I speak.

I am here to represent an opinion and if it is no longer wanted, I will take my knowledge and impart it upon people who understand what an opinion is.

[Rowdy]

Quest-C'mon,man.You called the guys suggestion "assinine".Little strong and belittling,don't you think?If you've never heard of the kitty litter,why bust evrybodys balls over it?You are allowed to learn something new every day.Keep an open mind.The guy I talked to at Hammer even had stats on how much oil gets pulled from a ball using Hook Again,baking,and........CAT LITTER!!!!So I guess it HAS been tested.I notice you live in Raliegh.Must be nice to have,what,5 or more houses to choose from.And all just a short ride for you.We have one 14 lane house here,no pro shop to speak of,and a 2 HOUR drive to a decent house with a good pro shop.Unfortunatly,said pro shop is only open when the guy feels like it.Soooo,how about a little slack and an open mind???Peace???:)
WEapons of Mass Destruction:
Black Widow
Bud Viz
HG-289

[Quest36X]

What I said was that it was the most asanine thing I had read on this forum. Did I call him asanine? NO.

[Quest36X]

Why doesn't Hammer market kitty litter?

Anyone?

Anyone know the long term effects of leaving your ball in kitty litter?

They may be similar, but with so many unknowns, why risk it? Aren't bowling balls expensive?

Yes, I live in Raleigh, yes I can choose from several bowling centers. Yes, I enjoy it. But I tell ya what Rowdy. Come up some weekend and enjoy the town, I'll take ya bowling.

[TenPinSniper]

Why don't we all just agree to disagree?

Would be interesting to know what Hammer aka Ebonite found out when they tested Hook Again, Kitty Litter and Baking... wonder if the tried Oil Dry, know they're suppose to be the samething, but they could have slighty different compounds. Wonder how each compared, long term effects, before and after hook and shape. Since they have all the cool tools; CATS, Bowlers MAP, Speed Cameras and stuff like that.

Not taking either side, I understand both sides.

I have used Hook Again, it works great for me.

[Rowdy]

Quest-The guy from Hammer told me that Hook Again would pull 15% MORE oil from your ball than Kitty litter.As far as the long term affects we both thought that since cat litter isn't any kind of penetrating agent there shouldn't be ANY harm to the ball.As you are well aware,using some liquids,(acetone,alcohol,etc)will enter the pores of the ball and can turn a perfectly great ball into a doorstop in record time!Not to mention against the rules.Now that the kids are old enough,the wife and I are going to start making small trips all over the Southeast!!!She rolls the rock,too.We'll let you know when we can get up your way and find a house where the pins fall down alot!:D
Weapons of Mass Destruction:
Black Widow
Bud Viz
HG-289

[mongoliantreesloth]

Found this article today and it covers a lot of points raised in this thread about different methods. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sport.bowling/browse_thread/thread/eefb1370579b8717/0233f80138168035?lnk=st&q=wall+street+journal+oil+bowling&rnum=3&hl=en#0233f80138168035

Also, I have to disagree about using the baking method I'm afraid. I read an article, either written by an Ebonite or a Storm staff member, who was vehemently against baking as, along with oil, the heat also drew resins and plasticisers out of the ball. I'll see if I can find it and post the link here.

[Street Racer]

i'm sure somebody has a old ball on here they dont use.. someone try it....

i'm up for trying anything, but i have no older gear....

[Rowdy]

Guys I've alredy used the kitty litter.....on a MONTH old Black Widow!!!This is no joke.Left it in there for 3 days.Pulled it out,wiped it down with a barely damn paper towel and put some Powerhouse Energizer on it.Went 202,235 and 245 that same night!The stuff relly works.Is it gonna last forever?No.I know that.Sometime in the next 2 months I'll make the lomg trip to a real pro shop and have it put in the Hook Again.BTW,what are you guys paying to have your ball put in the Hook Again?

[Gryndryno]

I like Quest, he brings a certain character that was lacking before. Thanks for the smiles....

[Nascar4292]

ok i havent been on here too long due to work and personal issues.....i read this thread and was rolling laughing at the comments. Lets seei have tried 3 of the ways which were mentioned. The baking and resurfacing method was a really really good one. i took my "dead" crossfire to the pro shop and he has the machine the revivor and a resurfacing machine. and oh my god lets just say that ummmmm yea i got about 95% the hook back in the ball. Now the Hook Again method it didnt work so hot on the crossfire it was the first method i tried and i didnt get anything out of it. The batheing i tried that alot and seems like everytime i do it, it makes the ball WORSE i dont understand it. so me personally i am going to stick with the Revivor machine and the resurfacing since considering i got it done like that and bowled my first 300 and have averaged really really really high with that ball. Still my favorite ball in my aresnal. I bowl on a National's shot League and use my crossfire over any other ball now that it has its hook back. So the baking resurfacing is a good method in my opinion.