A Bold New Idea

[Rowdy]

How many of you would be in favor of changing the equipment rules and go to a ball that has NO kind of offset or goofy looking core?Also, a ball with a non-porous coverstock?In other words a strictly solid core and a solid coverstock.And also get rid of all these crazy oil patterns.If you want to play with the oil,lay a flat pattern 10 to 15 foot increments,you could go light to heavy,heavy to light or for the more sadistic among us,you could start light,go heavy anf finish medium.You guys get the idea.But the real reason for this rule change would be that your ball wouldn't be obsolete after one season.If it lasted that long.Whadda think?

[BigDog]

How many of you would be in favor of changing the equipment rules and go to a ball that has NO kind of offset or goofy looking core?Also, a ball with a non-porous coverstock?In other words a strictly solid core and a solid coverstock.And also get rid of all these crazy oil patterns.If you want to play with the oil,lay a flat pattern 10 to 15 foot increments,you could go light to heavy,heavy to light or for the more sadistic among us,you could start light,go heavy anf finish medium.You guys get the idea.But the real reason for this rule change would be that your ball wouldn't be obsolete after one season.If it lasted that long.Whadda think?

Pancake cores? Flat oil patterns? I (1) think that's what you're talking about, and (2) don't think that's the answer.

From what I see, the problem is that the only folks that would be able to bowl well would be those that NEVER miss their intended target (that's not me ;)). The U.S. Open pattern is a perfect example. You might as well go back to Black Diamonds, LT-48's and Manhattan's. No thanks.

I'd start by having the USBC mandate that leagues maintain no more than a 5:1 Ratio when oiling the lanes. I think that would help negate the inflated scores that you see, as well as lessen the effects of the core and coverstock as the ball moves down the lane.

As for equipment being out of date, I don't buy into that either. I still keep my 16# Black Hammer that I bought in 1992 near me for those toasted conditions. I'm also thinking about selling my particle equipment (16# Hawg and 16# Power Diesel) because I don't like the way they read the lanes. They are both very good balls, but they don't fit my bowling style.

If you can, try to find a PBA Experience or a Sport League. I've bowled in both, and really learned a lot from them, and they can be very humbling.

[mongoliantreesloth]

Sounds like a White Dot/Maxim league to me.

[dw800seeker]

I guess what you really are proposing is the USBC settling on an official ball for everyone like in baseball, basketball, football, and whatever other sport. Then, there probably would be uniform rules for wrist gear too.

I like the variance in bowling balls. It still is challenging enough for me. I have my share of sub-200 games. And, in pba experience I do not get my share of 180+ games.:D

[transltr]

I started a thread called "Interesting interview with the CEO of the USBC" that kind of discusses what this thread is.

-Scott

[BigDog]

And, in pba experience I do not get my share of 180+ games.:D

I hear ya there....I shot 169-210-151 Monday night on Shark. I started with 3 opens in the first game, narrowly missed converting a 6-7 split in the second game, and had 3 more opens in the third game.

I liked Cheetah better I shot a 542, 40x, and a 557. The 40x was due to an unplanned break for about an hour while the pinsetter was being repaired, bad ball choice (I should have started with the Doom and move to the Vibe like sets 1 and 3), and my thumb swelling up:( ).

All leagues should be PBA leagues. They are challenging, but yoiu can shoot decent scores also. The key is spare shooting, and my White Dot is cracked, and hooks too much. I'm getting a new spare ball this weekend (Maxim Captain Fireball or Blue Dot - with finger and some negative side weight).

[BubbaRay]

All leagues should be PBA leagues. They are challenging, but yoiu can shoot decent scores also.

I tend to agree here. Let's think for a minute. Is it the balls making alot of people better bowlers or is it really the conditions. Hmmmmmmm with all the high mass bias balls now and new coverstocks and cores they do not mean a thing unless you apply your skills . Instead of buying every new ball that comes out, why not buy for instance another BW like you already have and drill it to roll earlier, later, strong, weak or whatever. Anything that's not what you are throwing already. The key to PBA conditions is actually quite simple. Do some research on PBA conditions and see what drillings us Pro's use on different patterns. Don't get me wrong I am not trying to sway anyone away from buying something new. Alittle research and practice on these conditions will help your game out trmendously. It's readilly available.

[BubbaRay]

Here's a good article from bowl.com that might help


If you've just joined a PBA Experience league (or will be this spring or summer), you'll be learning what Tommy Jones, Pete Weber, Walter Ray Williams Jr. and other top pros face from week to week as they try to solve the puzzles of the five PBA oil patterns.

Just like the pros, you'll be making decisions about how best to match up to the patterns you'll be facing. What type of ball will you choose? As the pattern breaks down, what adjustments will you make? Move your feet? Play a completely different part of the lane? Change your release? Change to a ball that rolls earlier or later? These are the choices bowlers face in the PBA Experience.

In an interview with USBC Sport Bowling spokesperson Chris Barnes, the Denny's PBA Tour superstar discusses how each of the PBA Experience patterns normally plays and what adjustments bowlers can make to have the best chance of success. For many of you, this will be your first time competing on these conditions. But with some inside insight from Barnes, you'll be better prepared to score on the Viper, Shark, Scorpion, Chameleon, and Cheetah oil patterns.

VIPER (Length: 37 feet. Description: Allows players to attack from multiple angles)
Derek Eoff: How does the Viper pattern typically play?
Chris Barnes: The Viper pattern typically plays to the outside of the lane, but the lane surface will dictate how much hook there will be.

DE: From where do you normally like to start attacking this pattern?
CB: I start at the farthest point right that gives me the most consistent hook spot on the lane, generally close to the first arrow. If boards 1 and 3 don't hook as much as I'd like, I make a slight move left and have my break point be between boards 4 and 6. The more axis tilt you create, the more you will have to move inside.

DE: What kinds of bowling balls work best on this pattern?
CB: I prefer to use bowling balls that flare less for this pattern. Generally I use a strong ball with a weak layout and increase my ball speed. I don't like going left to right on this pattern. Instead, I like to create push through the heads and use a ball with a smooth surface so it doesn't react too strongly at the break point.

DE: What tips for playing the Viper pattern can you give BTM readers?
CB: Play to the outside of the lane and don't start too far inside with your feet. I'd suggest starting between the 5 and 10 boards early on, then migrate inside as carry down occurs. This pattern should get easier as the day goes on.


SHARK - (Length: 43 feet. Description: Desirable angle for bowlers is deep inside)
DE: How does the Shark pattern typically play?
CB: Because of the 43-foot oil length, the Shark pattern plays deep inside. Remember that on a long oil pattern such as the Shark, you want your break point closer to the pocket. Normally you can start in the track area, but sometimes you will need to start inside of 20. Some people can go straight up 7 or 8 board (i.e. Columbia 300 Classic champion Norm Duke in December 2006). That is rare and you have to be very good at throwing the ball straight.

DE: What's the ideal starting point for attacking the Shark pattern?
CB: Normally you could expect to start between the third and fourth arrows with a break point of 12 or 13 and move inside as the day goes on. The back of the lane won't open up as much, so you'll need to open up the front and middle parts of the lane.

DE: How does the Shark pattern typically break down?
CB: This pattern is pretty slick, so it may take a few games for it to break down. Keep moving inside as the Shark breaks down.

DE: What kind of bowling balls do you like to use on this pattern?
CB: You're asking the wrong guy. I still haven't figured that out. I tend to use high flare, high response (aggressive) balls that push through the heads and make a good move down lane. The flare helps the ball read the lane and the high response works well because there is a short distance for the ball to hook and get through the pins due to the pattern length.

DE: What are your tips for playing the Shark pattern?

CB: The key is to be soft with your ball speed to give the ball time to roll, but be careful not to get the ball rolling too early because it can run out of energy too soon. Use more axis rotation and keep the ball on line through the front without using too much ball speed. Bowlers with slower ball speed and medium rev rates have the most success on the Shark. This is a low scoring pattern; making spares is important because strikes can be few and far between.

[BubbaRay]

Part two

SCORPION - (Length: 41 feet. Description: Can be attacked from multiple angles. Large oil volume down lane may require more direct line.)
DE: How does the Scorpion pattern typically play?
CB: The break point normally is around boards 8 or 9 on this pattern, but the lane surface type and condition could make it play around 5 board. This pattern usually plays more direct and farther right than the Shark. When the break point is at 9 or 10 on Scorpion compared with 12-13 on Shark, it can have a huge impact on the scoring pace on Tour. This pattern allows several different angles of attack. On some surfaces you can bump the ball off the 5 or 6 board, while other surfaces make you play inside of the track area with a break point further inside. Typically the lower rev players start around board 7 or 8 with the "tweeners" at 12-13 and the power players around 17 to 20.

DE: How does this pattern break down?
CB: You can migrate inside because bowlers start further outside. This pattern can create a higher scoring environment if broken down properly on a good lane surface.

DE: What kind of bowling balls do you like on this pattern?
CB: I use a low RG (2.45) ball with a .050 differential. This is a stronger ball with a strong cover and a little bit of surface. This allows my ball to read the mid-lane and get solid continuation through the pins.

DE: Please give us some tips for playing the Scorpion pattern.
CB: It's better to play a more direct line on fresh oil and not give away the 3-pin (2-pin for lefties); keep your angles tight. The Scorpion pattern will open up, so stay patient, eventually move inside and you should have some hold and swing area.


CHAMELEON - (Length: 39 feet. Description: Requires versatility in technique and angles.)
DE: How does the Chameleon pattern typically play?
CB: This pattern can change very quickly. On the Chameleon, straighter is often greater. Since it's a medium length pattern, you can play many different angles. However, some lane surfaces will dictate how direct you have to play the Chameleon.

DE: How do you attack Chameleon when it breaks down?
CB: I like to pick up my ball speed and stay in the same part of lane. You can use extreme angles later on after the lanes break down quite a bit. After break down, I will change to a stronger ball and use longer drillings. You might have to make big moves on this pattern to get the ball to smooth out in front of the pins.

DE: What kind of bowling balls do you prefer on Chameleon?
CB: I use low flaring equipment on this pattern. Balls that stay on line and kind of tumble work the best. You don't want big changes of direction, and these types of bowling balls allow me to stay farther outside and go more direct.

DE: Should bowlers use special surface preparation on their equipment when competing on Chameleon?
CB: On Chameleon, I like to use a ball with a bit of surface on the fresh. But that can get me in trouble as the pattern breaks down. Use balls with a moderately shiny surface, try to stay in the same part of lane and pick up your ball speed.

DE: Do you have any tips for playing the Chameleon pattern?
CB: A direct line typically is my optimal angle of attack. But don't be afraid to try multiple angles. It all depends on the lane surface. On higher friction lane surfaces, you can move inside and have success on the Chameleon pattern.

CHEETAH - (Length: 35 feet. Description: Shorter, high scoring pace requiring bowlers to play near the channel.)
DE: How does the Cheetah pattern typically play?
CB: Cheetah is our shortest pattern on Tour and always plays toward the channel. If there is some bounce (hook off the dry boards) near the channel, I can move a little left and use a ball with more surface and stronger drillings.


DE: How does Cheetah normally break down?
CB: That depends on how much hook you can generate near the channel. Your break point may have to be close to the channel, but in some cases you can move your feet and target a little more inside and make your break point 5 or 6 board instead of 2 or 3.

DE: What kind of bowling balls do you like on Cheetah?
CB: I prefer to use stronger balls that read the mid-lane and control the bounce off the channel. Cheetah can sometimes give you an over-under reaction. There are two ways to even out the over-under. Either play in the dry area with a weaker ball and hand position or move inside and use a stronger ball so it loses energy to control the back end hook.

DE: Do you have any tips for playing the Cheetah pattern?
CB: Strike early and often. On Cheetah you normally must get the ball to the 1 to 3 boards down the lane to have success. If the 1 to 3 boards don't hook, this pattern can be very difficult and you will have to play straight up between the 5 or 10 boards and control the back end hook.

DE: Do you have a favorite PBA Experience oil pattern?
CB: I have had the most success on the Cheetah pattern, but my favorites are the Scorpion and Chameleon.

DE: Which is your least favorite pattern?
CB: Shark. I don't like to see my ball break that far down the lane.

DE: Any final words of advice?
CB: PBA Experience oil patterns are challenging, but also exciting and rewarding. The decisions you'll make about equipment, technique adjustments such as targeting and release, and shooting at more spares ultimately can make you a better and more complete bowler. Give it a try. You'll have a good time and an enjoyable challenge.

[slap]

All leagues should be PBA leagues. They are challenging, but yoiu can shoot decent scores also.

There was a great article, either in BTM or on Bowl.com that suggested bowling should be divided in two three categories. Open bowling, recreational fun leagues and competive sport leagues and tournaments.

Around here "sport" leagues didn't really take off but the PBA experience leagues are doing well this summer. Maybe this is the start of something good. After two weeks of PBA league I'm hooked! I've already found a sport league to bowl next winter season.

[dw800seeker]

Bubba Ray: Thank you for that article and your advice.

[technik]

Here's a good article from bowl.com that might help


VIPER (Length: 37 feet. Description: Allows players to attack from multiple angles)
Derek Eoff: How does the Viper pattern typically play?
Chris Barnes: The Viper pattern typically plays to the outside of the lane, but the lane surface will dictate how much hook there will be.

DE: From where do you normally like to start attacking this pattern?
CB: I start at the farthest point right that gives me the most consistent hook spot on the lane, generally close to the first arrow. If boards 1 and 3 don't hook as much as I'd like, I make a slight move left and have my break point be between boards 4 and 6. The more axis tilt you create, the more you will have to move inside.

DE: What kinds of bowling balls work best on this pattern?
CB: I prefer to use bowling balls that flare less for this pattern. Generally I use a strong ball with a weak layout and increase my ball speed. I don't like going left to right on this pattern. Instead, I like to create push through the heads and use a ball with a smooth surface so it doesn't react too strongly at the break point.

DE: What tips for playing the Viper pattern can you give BTM readers?
CB: Play to the outside of the lane and don't start too far inside with your feet. I'd suggest starting between the 5 and 10 boards early on, then migrate inside as carry down occurs. This pattern should get easier as the day goes on.


thanks Bubba...this should also be posted in one of our PBA experience threads.

methinks this is better than the PBA videos on the different patterns; the video tips are kinda confusing since they advise to play outside and inside as well. i think there's too many cooks doing the baking :D


i'll have to face Viper tonight from the outside using CB's approach; i'll start with my BW wet polish.

[BigDog]

Around here "sport" leagues didn't really take off but the PBA experience leagues are doing well this summer. Maybe this is the start of something good. After two weeks of PBA league I'm hooked! I've already found a sport league to bowl next winter season.

Have you thrown Shark or Scorpion yet? They are the two toughest conditions I think.

I bowled in a spring non-sanctioned PBA/Lousy bowlers league (the PBA condition was added to the first time bowlers league). The PBA league is still unsanctioned, but at least the split off the leagues, and it's more fun this go around. At least I'm not dodging ez-slide, beer, and everything else this summer...

Still I wish i was sanctioned...

[BubbaRay]

Bubba Ray: Thank you for that article and your advice.


Just trying to add some advice. I've been there and done that. The first year I was on tour was a learning process. It took me a good year and a half before I knew what my fellow Pro's knew and learned. Made alot of friends and got some good advice out there. Anyway I can help here I will.

[ravenhammer]

But the real reason for this rule change would be that your ball wouldn't be obsolete after one season.If it lasted that long.Whadda think?
Seems like this type of league always come up when people get bored in the league, or somthing changes and people get frustrated.
It is a good way to put all these ball companys out of buisness:eek:

[slap]

Have you thrown Shark or Scorpion yet? They are the two toughest conditions I think.

I bowled in a spring non-sanctioned PBA/Lousy bowlers league (the PBA condition was added to the first time bowlers league). The PBA league is still unsanctioned, but at least the split off the leagues, and it's more fun this go around. At least I'm not dodging ez-slide, beer, and everything else this summer...

Still I wish i was sanctioned...

I practiced on the Shark but I'll see it in league for the first time on Monday.

As far as sanction, I'm bowling in two houses. One has run a sport league for a while so they have a full sanctioned PBA league this summer. The second house hasn't run any type of sport league. This summer they are running an unsanctioned PBA league so hopefully if participation is high even things will roll over into the winter.

[Rowdy]

Guys-Those are all fine points y'all made.As far as the PBA 5 shot deal,if I want to make a ball do 5 different things thats easy.It's called golf.Do you really want to turn your game over to the kid at the bowling alley that runs the oil machine?I've watched guys leave to go bowl on these "challenging conditions" and come right on back when they watch somebody shoot a high series using an old spare ball and shoot from the far right side with maybe a 2 or 3 board hook into the pocket.Gee,I've got an old 14 lb plastic ball around here somewhere that should be good for that.The point I was trying to make was to put the score more in OUR hands,not someone else's.If YOU can make the ball hook,good for you.The ball shouldn't be doing all the work for you.Tricked up oil patterns are like Augusta National moving the tee boxes back because Tiger can knock the crap out of it.We used to have tough oil patterns back in the day.It was usually called the Fri or Sat Sweeper.Or Mens League.You could tell the studs from the duds.I'm just really sick of watching guys who couldn't roll 100 with a house ball go 240 with their Super Hooker 5000.And next month they're going 250 with the Super Hooker 6000!Maybe what we need is a spec ball league.Everybody gets a Black Widow and we roll for cash!:D

[BubbaRay]

I wonder what scores these days people would shoot if they bring back the old condition that many of you don't even know existed. Try bowling on wood lanes with lacquer surfaces with todays equipment. This is what I learned to bowl on.

I wonder how todays balls would react. Anyone ?

[Rowdy]

Bubba-Here's the line score:0 2,1 1,3 0,1 1,4 0,3 0,6 /,.....get it?

[BubbaRay]

Bubba-Here's the line score:0 2,1 1,3 0,1 1,4 0,3 0,6 /,.....get it?

Got it Rowdy. I guess you know what I am talking about then .

[rugdoc]

Sounds like the shot I learned how to bowl on... I remember the owner of the house putting the oil down with something that looked like a dust mop. I don't want to sound this way, but give me a couple weeks, I think I could still ave. 200 on it.

[slap]

Guys-Those are all fine points y'all made.As far as the PBA 5 shot deal,if I want to make a ball do 5 different things thats easy.It's called golf.Do you really want to turn your game over to the kid at the bowling alley that runs the oil machine?I've watched guys leave to go bowl on these "challenging conditions" and come right on back when they watch somebody shoot a high series using an old spare ball and shoot from the far right side with maybe a 2 or 3 board hook into the pocket.Gee,I've got an old 14 lb plastic ball around here somewhere that should be good for that.The point I was trying to make was to put the score more in OUR hands,not someone else's.If YOU can make the ball hook,good for you.The ball shouldn't be doing all the work for you.Tricked up oil patterns are like Augusta National moving the tee boxes back because Tiger can knock the crap out of it.We used to have tough oil patterns back in the day.It was usually called the Fri or Sat Sweeper.Or Mens League.You could tell the studs from the duds.I'm just really sick of watching guys who couldn't roll 100 with a house ball go 240 with their Super Hooker 5000.And next month they're going 250 with the Super Hooker 6000!Maybe what we need is a spec ball league.Everybody gets a Black Widow and we roll for cash!:D

I respect your opinion and actually I agree with a lot of what you said but..."Super Hooker" balls aren't going anywhere. In fact they keep hooking more each season. The USBC tried to "reign in monster balls" but from what I'm hearing it's not going to happen.

I'm a younger bowler but from my understanding it's always been bowler vs lane man. Find the line and pound the hole. Accuracy, all the older bowlers I know say that was the key before "Super Hoookers." They complain that with today's equipment accuracy doesn't matter anymore. Just stand left and throw right...strike!...300!!...800!!!

The only part of the equation to restore some level of skill to the game is oil patterns. To score on sport (and pba patterns) you need to be consistent with speed, loft, release and guess what accurate! Wow that sounds like the game of the old days. If someone in a sport league shoots a high series pointing a Blue Dot from the corner they deserve it. I guarantee they weren't spraying the ball all over like a cranker on a house shot.

Sport bowling is for real bowlers.

[vettevader]

call me old school. i am 58, and bowled alot when i was younger. on the high school, and college bowling teams. at my best, i averaged 185. i come back after a long layoff of almost 25 years, i have bowled 88 games, and averaged 205. it is so much easier than it used to be. 800 series were rarities, now their common. 300s were rarities, now their common. in order to limit scoring pba patternsare laid down in essence to trick the bowlers to keep scores down. i'm all for letting the public use whatever ball they want. let them score high and be happy. but for professionals, let them use one coverstock, no core, etc. and let their talent decide the outcome, not the equipment, and not the tricked up lane conditions.

[blistershurt]

Pros all have a giant arsenal to battle crazy lane conditions out there along with their skill. Most bring alot of balls to a tournament, during the TV finals look at the ball return, its full.

[Rowdy]

Vettevader-You and I ARE old school.Will be the big 50 in Jan.Remember when you walked in the house and there was a board with all the names of guys who had tossed a 300.Damn short list.Same with 700 and 800 Series.Now you would need to use both side walls to put up all the names!I KNOW for a fact that my ball has gotten me strikes I had no business getting!

[BubbaRay]

Vettevader-You and I ARE old school.Will be the big 50 in Jan.Remember when you walked in the house and there was a board with all the names of guys who had tossed a 300.Damn short list.Same with 700 and 800 Series.Now you would need to use both side walls to put up all the names!I KNOW for a fact that my ball has gotten me strikes I had no business getting!

Put me in you catagory of old school. 54 here. Yes I agree we do have a arsenal of balls at each stop.
What I don't aggree on is what Vettevader said about PBA patterns being laid down to TRICK the bowlers in keeping scores down. USBC is not trying to trick anyone. The patterns are publicly posted and so is how to play them.

Letting us use one coverstock and no core? What oil pattern should we use these balls on. The easy pattern nowdays or the PBA patterns.

Does anyone think the dimples in the golf balls are there for looks? Hell no. They arte there for a reason. How many , what size, even the pattern they are laid out on the ball. Maybe the PGA should let the Pros use golf ball with the softest compression and no dimples and let thier talent shoot 10- 20 under. Ain't gonna happen.

[Rowdy]

Bubba- Golf balls and bowling balls are the same.Always in the hands of the Pro's for a year or two before "they" decide "we" are worthy enough to buy them.That means the Pro's on both Tours have racked up a ton of wins and high finishes,enough that so the guys that "have" to have the latest and greatest will pay top dollar for the balls.The other thing they have in common is that the Pro's on BOTH Tours DON'T PAY for them!

[Rowdy]

Bubba-BTW,a golf ball with NO dimples and a soft compression will go NOWHERE!!!And you wouldn't be able to know WHERE the golf ball would go.It would be like a knuckleball.The dimples create lift on the ball,and they also let you put spin on it with those "under development" clubs with the spiffy grooves!Thats why Tiger can stop one on a dime or make it spin back a country mile!I would PAY to go to a PGA tournament where all they could use was clubs and balls from Wal-Mart!!!!The winning score would be about 15 over par!

[vettevader]

there is much talk in golf about going to a uniform golf ball for the pros because technology has made the shorter, older golf courses obsolete. golf balls go longer, shafts and heads make the ball go farther. they have to build longer courses with penal rough, narrow fairways because it has become too easy for them. scale back the golf ball so distance is not as big a factor, and let the guy who has the talent, who can shape shots, etc. win......bowlers can resort to an arsenal of balls for different lane conditions. is it the bowler using his skill, or is it the ball that is making the difference? the problem is the public wants to see guys hitting it 340-350 yards. they want to see a match ending 280 to 278, not 211 to 207. put the skill back into the game, don't let the technology take the skill out of it.

[BubbaRay]

. put the skill back into the game, don't let the technology take the skill out of it.I agree. That's why I am n favor of the sport & PBA patterns. Skill.

And the only ones that don't pay for their balls are the ones under contracxt or on staff. I pay for mine.

[Rowdy]

You agree but then you say you like the new oil patterns.Can't have it both ways.Think of the new oil as the PBA's attemp at putting in deeper rough,longer tees,etc.If you have to have an arsenal of balls,then it must be the ball thats making you better.Otherwise you would have 1 strike ball and 1 spare ball.You would learn to throw the strike ball in ALL kinds of oil conditions.Maybe we could pick a strike and a spare ball at the start of the season.Then that's all you could use the rest of the way.Some weeks you would score,some weeks not.This is where YOUR SKILL would come into play.BTW-since I seem to be the only person to go to a NASCAR race to see a good race not the wrecks,I'm also the guy who would rather watch a match that ended 210 to 198 while both guys tried to figure out the lane,instead of watching to see which guy WON'T strike first.
Weapons of Mass Destuction:
Black Widow
Bud Viz
High Game-289

[BubbaRay]

Rowdy, what I am actually saying is, I agree with the PBA and sport patterns and the bowlers skills take control of their game and their scores will climb.

Even at PBA events how many of the Pro's do you think all shoot in the over column. It's nothing to see 200 - 300 - 400 - 500 under on different patterns.. So on these patterns I don't think the balls are making the scores. The bowlers skills are.

Sorry if I didn't explain it correctly.

[vettevader]

i couldn't agree with you more rowdy, but i'm sure you and i are in the minority.

[slap]

Rowdy,

I'm not a golfer so I can't comment on your golf comparisons but are you telling me golf course design has not been effected by improving golf technology? Every summer I hear the guys at work all excited by new drivers? Bigger sweet spot, custom club fitting. Why do golfers have a bag full of clubs?

Aren't there different distances at the tees? What about "blue tees?" Aren't the those the tees way way back for advanced golfers? There was an article in Bowling This Month that asked where are bowling's "blue tees", ie a visual indicator of difficulty. Maybe we need gold pins for sport patterns.

[Rowdy]

You explained it fine.The parts I'm not getting is if there is so much bowler skill involved,why do you have 9 balls and I only roll 2?I had 2 old balls.old shoes,old bag.Gave them all away.Bought the Black Widow for the strikes and the Bud Viz for spares.Bought a new 2 ball roller bag,and a new pair of shoes.And a new bowling shirt with my name on the back.As I see the numbers I'm 13 pins behind you in average and 11 pins back in High Game.And you've got 7 more balls than me to get 13 pins?Something is not adding up here.And my average is in two different houses with two entirely different shots.Help me figure this out.

[blistershurt]

Dude. Lets put it this way. You see someone jump from a polyester ball to a BW. The BW will do SOME work for them, the rest of the hook that is created is created by the bowlers technique. And skill is part of technique, along with your ability to accurately hit your mark time and time again.
Also, just because someone has 7 more balls than you and you're close to them in skill doesnt mean much. Bubba probably doesnt use all 9 of his balls. Remember, you only throw 1 ball at a time. And...a large part of your average is your ability to be consistant with your release and with your accuracy.

[Rowdy]

Well now.Since it was Bubba,not slap that had 9 balls,we'll assume 1 of those is for spares which leaves 8.Okay Bubba,the $64,000 question:just how many balls do you take with you to the lanes?And I mean in the car.Where if you need one,you can go outside and get one.What's the number?

[slap]

Great discussion by the way, good points on both sides.

If I were a league bowler I would have three balls, one dull, one shiny and a spare. In my opinion the pain and doom are a league bowlers dream. For a regular league night I bring 3+1. After I polished my Widow it worked so well on our shot that was the only ball I used for the last few weeks of the season.

I made a decision this year to become serious about bowling with the goal of becoming a scratch tournament bowler. That lead to a lot of other things, lessons with a coach, a ton reading and research on bowling theory and an investment in equipment.



In a tournament the lane conditions are a big unknown. Heck, in a strange house even the approaches are an unknown thus interchangable soles and heels. I have an arsenal to give me a variety of reactions for those conditions.

Balls are not a magical solution. I learned that lesson this week. In an effort to increase my carry I made a ball change and the result was not pretty. I'm still learning about my eqiupment.

[Rowdy]

Slap-Great point about the approaches.The owners kid sanded ours last week:eek: !It's kinda like trying to stop on patchy ice.Slide,stop,slide,stop.Move to one side and theres NO STOP!Thank God the Missus bought me a pair of Brunswick Classics.Got all the interchangeable slides and heels:D

[slap]

Slap-Great point about the approaches.The owners kid sanded ours last week:eek: !It's kinda like trying to stop on patchy ice.Slide,stop,slide,stop.Move to one side and theres NO STOP!Thank God the Missus bought me a pair of Brunswick Classics.Got all the interchangeable slides and heels:D

Yep, soles and heels are like insurance. You don't often need to use them but when you do, YOU DO!

[blistershurt]

I need a pair of good shoes...mine are messed up real bad, but they got both slides. I'm looking at a pair of SST4's. My average is improving again...I think its in the upper 180's at the moment, I need to double check though. I'm happy I've made a large improvement. Started bowling last April had an average of 100, moved to a power groove, went up to 120, got Fired Up bumped up to 150, BW made my lower 150 average so up to 160 at the end of the year. I just cant wait to get my BW back and to bounce back from surgery...I'll be throwing better then ^.^

[Rowdy]

The best part about the Classics is that the right shoe is specially made just for pushing off.No slide at all.Great for when you need to put a little extra steam on the ball!And the bag that the heels and slides come in have a chart printed right on the bag so you KNOW how to fine tune them for the amount of slide you need.No breakin time,either.Slid great right out of the box!

[BubbaRay]

Well now.Since it was Bubba,not slap that had 9 balls,we'll assume 1 of those is for spares which leaves 8.Okay Bubba,the $64,000 question:just how many balls do you take with you to the lanes?And I mean in the car.Where if you need one,you can go outside and get one.What's the number?


Ok here's the deal. I have way more than 9 balls to start with. Let's put it this way, At the end of last season I donated 63 balls to the older junior leagues for next season. Now next, When I bowl in league play I take 4 balls with me. One spare ball an old purple rhino. The other 3, two are drilled the same for length and aggressive back end and the other is drilled to roll alittle earlier. It all depends on what house I am league bowling in. I bowl in 4 different houses. It will vary on what brand of balls I take with me and how I have them drilled.

Now when I bowl in a PBA event National or Senior stop, I take six balls with me and I will drill sometimes three to 5 more at the event after practice session is over. After the first squad if I don't get the reaction I am looking for depending on the pattern out there I will try another layout.

Look I am not getting on anyone here all I expressed was my opinion on the sport and PBA patterns and the skills of bowling on these conditions. One could have 500 balls and if that person does not apply the skill and knowledge that individuall has, the equipment means nothing.

I personnally know people in my area that bowl in one house one in piticular and he average's 240 and thinks he is the greatest bowler in the state with that avg. You could kick the ball down the lane there and hit the pocket. At one local tournament he was destroying the house and running away with the tournament ( and it so happened to be in his house ) he was bragging up a storm saying to the effect, " Take me to any house, any house". SO I challenged him to join A PBA experience league at a different house, and not one I bowl in and guess what his response was?

No Way. Those are tough conditions and are all diferent. So the $64,000 quesion is..... Is this guy the best bowler in his house and it is a true 240 avg. on easy conditions?

Like I said I am not trying to go against anyone here and I am sorry if any of my posts are taken the wrong way. We all have our own opinions and some I agree with and some I may differ with like anyone else. I know what life is on tour and conditions that are faced each week. I am getting older and have lost some of my rvs, but still have around 350 rev rate and the legs aren't as strong as they were 15 years ago. So I have made the adjustments to compensate and everyone will eventually have to change something in their game whether it be sooner or later.

[Rowdy]

Bubba-Don't misunderstand.Not putting you down for anything.The 63 ball donation was way cool!How do I get adopted?That was an awesome point you made about the averages.I think what has happened is that with all these different "Pattern Leagues" and PBA Experiences,plus the regular houses,I starting to form the opinion that an average don't mean squat except in the house you have the average in.Guess it would be like shooting an 88 at the local Muni and then showing up at a PGA course and telling them your handicap is 16!I can see why you have to take a lot of balls to a tourney,if I was bowling for that kind of money,I'd have a tractor trailer full of balls in the parking lot!Sorry if you got offended at anything I posted here.Not my intent.Okay?

[BubbaRay]

Rowdy, I didn't get offened my friend. I was thinking you and vette did. I'm cool my friend. I will gladly help you and anyone in any way I can .

[Rowdy]

Adopt Me!:d

[vettevader]

no, bubba i was not offended. i found it very interesting to get both sides of the issue. we are all here to try and learn, and hopefully become better. i think you spoke very eloquently about your knowledge and love of the game...as rowdy said, you can adopt me too....

[slap]

This has been a gentlemen's conversation, different viewpoints expressed in a rational manner. Threads like this are why I come to these boards....

To change the direction of the topic slightly, do you feel that "sport patterns" are here to stay?

The first go around with 2:1 "sport patterns" didn't really take off but the highly branded "pba experience leagues" seem to be doing better.

The PBA seems to be pushing this concept. They scraped the old regional patterns in favor of the national tour patterns (I'm not sure about the seniors?) and you can't watch a telecast with "join your local PBA Experience league" commericals.

[JoshWithrow]

Ok here's the deal. I have way more than 9 balls to start with. Let's put it this way, At the end of last season I donated 63 balls to the older junior leagues for next season. Now next, When I bowl in league play I take 4 balls with me. One spare ball an old purple rhino. The other 3, two are drilled the same for length and aggressive back end and the other is drilled to roll alittle earlier. It all depends on what house I am league bowling in. I bowl in 4 different houses. It will vary on what brand of balls I take with me and how I have them drilled.

Now when I bowl in a PBA event National or Senior stop, I take six balls with me and I will drill sometimes three to 5 more at the event after practice session is over. After the first squad if I don't get the reaction I am looking for depending on the pattern out there I will try another layout.

Look I am not getting on anyone here all I expressed was my opinion on the sport and PBA patterns and the skills of bowling on these conditions. One could have 500 balls and if that person does not apply the skill and knowledge that individuall has, the equipment means nothing.

I personnally know people in my area that bowl in one house one in piticular and he average's 240 and thinks he is the greatest bowler in the state with that avg. You could kick the ball down the lane there and hit the pocket. At one local tournament he was destroying the house and running away with the tournament ( and it so happened to be in his house ) he was bragging up a storm saying to the effect, " Take me to any house, any house". SO I challenged him to join A PBA experience league at a different house, and not one I bowl in and guess what his response was?

No Way. Those are tough conditions and are all diferent. So the $64,000 quesion is..... Is this guy the best bowler in his house and it is a true 240 avg. on easy conditions?

Like I said I am not trying to go against anyone here and I am sorry if any of my posts are taken the wrong way. We all have our own opinions and some I agree with and some I may differ with like anyone else. I know what life is on tour and conditions that are faced each week. I am getting older and have lost some of my rvs, but still have around 350 rev rate and the legs aren't as strong as they were 15 years ago. So I have made the adjustments to compensate and everyone will eventually have to change something in their game whether it be sooner or later.

This guy... he's amazing!!! Who is he?!

Anywho, I really hope the sport shot is here to stay. I haven't had a chance to sign up for a sport league yet due to work schedule / league time conflicts, but maybe this winter I'll be able to do so. I really think they have alot to offer to the people who are able to get over themselves and/or their egos.

[Rowdy]

The PBA Tour and the USBC have a ton of dough tied up in getting everyone to buy into these new oil patterns.That's why all the commercials.My dad told me that back in the day,Ford pushed the Edsel really hard,too.We all know how that turned out.I gotta belive that the "sport conditions" and whatever other term you want to use for them will hinge on one thing.How many league bowlers will re-up for a second or third season of bowling on these patterns.And,will these leagues grow with new bowlers coming in,or will they become stagnant cliques of the same guys showing up season after season.Time will tell and the bowlers will vote with their wallets.Just the way it should be.