My Take on House and Sport conditions

[BubbaRay]

Hi HammerHeads,

I want to take alitle time to express what I feel and what other might agree with or disagree with on House and Soprt conditions.

Through my reading posts here, I have come to notice there are alot of young bowlers here looking for advice and help as well as us older kegglers looking to improve their game. Wether it be ball selection, lane conditions, help in release and approach . That's what we are here for to offer each other help.

Most of you older and some younger guy's and gals will agree with me that when we started bowling we were hoping to be good enough to turn pro. We all put our sweat and tears into this sport to get where we are today. The game has changed trmendously over the years with lane surfaces , equipment, cost and conditions. I feel we need the sport conditions to prepare those who have hope of joing the PBA and going to Regionals and Major tour events.

I remember when I first went on tour, my good friend and fellow PBA member said to me you will have no trouble out there. I went to my first regional and I stunk. The reason I stunk was, I was in awe of all the pro's there and how they were bowling I didn't concentrate on my own game. And I will tell of you this, This will happen to you when you get there for the first time also.

Bowling on pro conditions was hard enough, but it was a learning process for me and everyone else who gets to that level. Sport conditions are need to help the young guns learn how to select the proper equipment , drill it for that specific condition, learn to adjust for the condition, learn to change our axis tilt on the ball with theri release. I learned fast if I wanted to have any chance of making any kind of money being regionals or Pro tour stops.
I remember going to Cleveland and bowling real well, made the cut and cashed. My confidence got stronger with that. Next stop was the PBA National Championship in Toldeo at Imperial Lanes in 1987. Well all know who made TV finals in that one. Pete Weber , David Ozio , Randy Peterson , Marshal Hollman , and Amleto Monacelli .

Well back to the story, I started my practice session and the conditions seemed what I was accustomed to back home. Hooking the ball from 10-4 to the pocket. Well was I in for a rude awakening. Qualifying started the next day and I could not wrinkle the ball 1 board throughout the first squad. Talk about being imbarassed. I wound up 700 under and dejected. I went back home for a two weeks and practiced on oily conditions.

Times has changed and conditons have also. Do we wnat our up and coming bowlers who have hopes of joining the PBA and trying thier hand at regionals or making the tour, bowling on easy house conditions where you could miss your mark litteraly by 5-6 boards and not have to worry about it making it to the pocket? My opinion is NO WAY> We need these sport conditions as a learning process for the up and comming bowlers so they will know what to do when they get that chance. They will have already learned how to adjust, select the proper equipment and drill pattern. I am not saying take away the house shot altogether, but we need more sport legues in different house's with different lane surfaces for the experience. This is exactly what's out there. Not all houses are the same as we all know. I would rather pot bowl in a strange house for $100 a game on a sport condition, than bowl on a house condition where that house bowler will kill you with their game any day of the week. We all know that. This is not an easy sport. Which leads me to another question which has been debated for years and years. Are bowlers Atheletes?

Ok I am don ranting about this subject and I hope the picture is clear on how we need more sport leagues..

Thanks for the time and space gentlemen and 1 Lady that I know of.

[Paul1979]

hmm lots of good points raised there mate.

I will put my take on the main one. I think there need to a varied difficulty of lane conditions, not just easy, not just difficult but all different types.

Harder and more important games should always be played on a sport pattern though. I have always asked for difficult patterns as it tends to seperate the better more accurate bowlers apart from the people who can hit a 5 board area each time.

The more difficult a condition the more in focus I tend to get which helps on everything such as release, timing, speed and trying to read the lanes quicker.

I would love to play a PBA pattern as I am hitting an avg of 23 - 28 strikes a set at the moment and it seems to be getting a little too easy.

Paul

[dw800seeker]

I am big fan of sport shot leagues and tournaments and hope they wil grow in popularity in the future. Also, if anyone in California, Nevada or Arizona hear of a pba experience tournament coming up please let me know. I am not nearly good enough to play in a Regional, however, I would love to play in a sport tournament on a PBA Pattern for non-pros.:D

[Rowdy]

Geez Bubba,are bowlers atheletes? Man,you're buddies will KILL you for that one! As for the sport vs. house shot,I think that one will crash and burn on it's own.The answer will be....NEITHER!!! Guys like slap who think if you don't sport bowl you should go play golf,you're not a real bowler. Excuse me,but when I see ANYONE walk into a house with two or more balls and their own shoes,I'm pretty damn sure I'm looking at a bowler. Then come the house shot guys who are pissed that their party got crashed by this goofy oil pattern. Sometimes I feel like I'm standing in the middle of two train tracks with a train whizzing by on both sides of me!The houses can't afford the price of a new oil machine,out of EVERYBODY who takes up bowling this year only 2 or 3 will make it to the top.So we're gonna trash it all for THREE people?I don't think so.There HAS to be a middle ground and it's up to us as bowlers to find it damn quick.I'm racking my poor old brain every day to figure out what in the hell to do.But it aint gonna happen with this "my shots better than your shot" shit going on.You people are NOT 2 year olds.You ARE grownups who better learn to compromise on this or we'll all be in line at the first tee!There HAS TO BE a way to combine the two shots.Maybe the next big breakthrogh will be in the oil dept.I hope so.A half and half shot?Side to side?I don't know and sometimes it scares me.Maybe we need to dial the ball back,put more responsibility for the hook back into the players hand.I don't mean go back to pancake cores and stuff.Just dial the core and coverstock back to something resonable.Change the oil,change the ball,might work.Put the pride back in a 300 without trick patterns and balls that do the work for you.Maybe the equipment has outgrown the game.This aint golf,we can't make the lane longer or wider!While Bubba hides under his desk,dodging balls thrown at him by PBA guys,lets see if we can figure this mess out.

[bluerrpilot]

I must agree that the amount of "more difficult" or "variety" of conditions needs to improve. There is no way for the younger bowlers to learn how to make quality shots on the fluffy conditions they bowl on. And with the overwhelming amount of corp. run houses, theres not much they will do to help the situation.

dw800 If you feel like making the drive. There will be a 20 game tourny here in the Phoenix area in a few weeks. They will be putting down the Shark pattern for the first 10 games then re-oil with a different pattern (undisclosed) for the second 10 games. $100 entry

[Rowdy]

Question:How do you guys know which pattern you're bowling on? I mean I understand they TELL you it's a shark or whatever,but how do you know that's whats on the lane?Reason I ask is that I'm thinking about trying one of these PBA things this winter. Shit,someone dial 911,Slap just fell over. But back to the question,I've seen the handouts on these oil patterns,but who actually makes sure that they're the correct one? I'd hate to bowl for a whole season and go to some tournaments and find out that the oil's been fooled with.And I KNOW of one cheap ass house that's gonna do just that.

[bluerrpilot]

Question:How do you guys know which pattern you're bowling on? I mean I understand they TELL you it's a shark or whatever,but how do you know that's whats on the lane?Reason I ask is that I'm thinking about trying one of these PBA things this winter. Shit,someone dial 911,Slap just fell over. But back to the question,I've seen the handouts on these oil patterns,but who actually makes sure that they're the correct one? I'd hate to bowl for a whole season and go to some tournaments and find out that the oil's been fooled with.And I KNOW of one cheap ass house that's gonna do just that.

If its an official sport or PBA leauge they must run a tape. Then you can ask for the results if it passed or not. If your fortunate enough, someone in the leauge will have bowled on that shot and can confirm weather or not it plays the same. There is a house near me that puts out a PBA shot but half the time it isnt right.

[slap]

. Shit,someone dial 911,Slap just fell over.

Nope, my palms got a little sweaty but luckily I had a nice beer within reach.

Go for it Rowdy, if you don't like it at least you can say you gave it an honest effort. My prediction is you'll get hooked. Why? Because my impression is that you're a serious bowler and that's who these leagues are designed for. The challenge of these conditions is the appeal.

I'm not anti house shot, there is a place for them. As of right now, this winter I'll be in one THS and one Sport league. I'm not so much of a snob that I refuse to bowl in a house league. Also I'm not implying that there are no talented bowlers in THS leagues.

[TenPinSniper]

There is a place for both... if you want to be in a serious league it needs to be played on some sort competitive shot, not these shots that are 20:1... those are okay for fun leagues. Yes its okay to want to win fun leagues.

Competitive Shots are not always PBA or Sport shots, just harder oil patterns.

[grayfin68]

Good post, however, I don't see many people on here complaining about sport shots in general.

I think a lot of us struggle with those conditions because of inexperience. I know I am. That does not mean that I don't welcome the challenge.

I feel like I'm learning things in the PBA league even though I am averaging way lower than expected according to the projections sheet that they have come up with. According to that, I should be averaging around 171, but I'm averaging a measly 151.

Either way, I am struggling, but I look forward to playing on these conditions each week until the season is over and during some tournaments. I'm sure with practice, I'll get better.

[Toolman-Tim]

I would love to see more pattern in the house that i bowl, shit i'd love to see some oil on the lanes period. Our house shot is DRY, the only time that changes is after the big town tournement, then there is some oil left but it dont last long. I do see rowdy's point too, the guys that drink for fun and try to bowl at the same time, dont care about the lanes, oil or balls they just want their beer. I do think that it is up to the house to create leagues that meet the needs and wishes of the bowlers.

[BubbaRay]

"quote Geez Bubba,are bowlers atheletes? Man,you're buddies will KILL you for that one end quote. This has ben debated for many years in this sport and my question was just passing along what is being debated.
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"quote Then come the house shot guys who are pissed that their party got crashed by this goofy oil pattern.end quote"

My point exactly. House guy's are pissed and the only reason is thier egos are hurt that they can't avg 230+
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"quote But it aint gonna happen with this "my shots better than your shot" shit going on.You people are NOT 2 year olds.You ARE grownups who better learn to compromise on this or we'll all be in line at the first tee. end quote

The main point for these PBA /sport conditions are not arguing my shot is better than your shot. The point is it's a learning experienc and it make better bowlers out of everyone

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While Bubba hides under his desk,dodging balls thrown at him by PBA guys,lets see if we can figure this mess out.

Bubba ain't gonna hide anywhere . My fellow PBA pro's are not going to look ate me any different . Hell 90% of them feel the same way. Ask any pro that you know what he feels about sport conditions pertaining to bowlers and not house owners.

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"quote Question:How do you guys know which pattern you're bowling on? I mean I understand they TELL you it's a shark or whatever,but how do you know that's whats on the lane?Reason I ask is that I'm thinking about trying one of these PBA things this winter. Shit,someone dial 911,Slap just fell over. But back to the question,I've seen the handouts on these oil patterns,but who actually makes sure that they're the correct one? I'd hate to bowl for a whole season and go to some tournaments and find out that the oil's been fooled with.And I KNOW of one cheap ass house that's gonna do just that.end quote"

Whenthe lanes are dressed the house must take a tape of the pattern and send it to USBC to make sure it is the true pattern.

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quote Good post, however, I don't see many people on here complaining about sport shots in general.

I think a lot of us struggle with those conditions because of inexperience. I know I am. That does not mean that I don't welcome the challenge.

I feel like I'm learning things in the PBA league even though I am averaging way lower than expected according to the projections sheet that they have come up with. According to that, I should be averaging around 171, but I'm averaging a measly 151.

Either way, I am struggling, but I look forward to playing on these conditions each week until the season is over and during some tournaments. I'm sure with practice, I'll get better. end quote.


Now do we get the idea about PBA and sport patterns ? Here only one that I have read that say they are learning from this.

This is not about high scores or averaging 230+. It's all about making us better bowlers.

[can-ham]

I would kill for a PBA league in my area. I've tried to get our "sport shot" league to move to it. As it's the only league in town that puts out a harder shot than a THS. But even this league has had the condition eased up part way through last year. When I asked the lane man why he said he was sick of being blamed for low scores and the beer sales where down. So basically if people are scoring lower their not drinking and buying food as much. (I was reading a bowlers journal last year and many of the adds for bowling center products promoted bringing scores up...)

http://www.probowlinginfo.com/p/NormDuke_f.jpg
I would like to get better by bowling on harder conditions, but also I'm a fan of the PBA. When I first started bowling I would watch the PBA and get excited every time a professional scored lower than my highest game (at the time it was something like 227). A dude in my league was always telling me if he gets his average up to 200 he's going to go on tour (this dude was in his mid 30s). At that time we just didn't get it. I wasn't until I moved back to Canada and rolled on a harder shot than the christmas tree that I started to appreciate what the pros are doing on those patterns. Just as a fan I'd like to try those shots and see how they break down etc. It's easy to yell at Doug or Tony to put the widow away it's not working, but you'll never really know till you've walked in those shoes (although the PBA league is missing the T.V. lights).

[TenPinSniper]

Here is another post of mine, think I have learned alot and still learning alot.
http://forums.hammerbowling.com/showthread.php?p=29715#post29715

The biggest thing is my spare game will improve.... if you can find a line with a spare ball that you can shot consistently. It should work at every alley with no adjustments... but reality is there may need to be slight adjustments. Been trying to shot straight or straighter at single pin spares and most splits.

Here is what I seem to have a good grip on right now...
3,4,6,7,9 and 10... some two pins combos 4-7, 6-10, 3-6-10, 3-10 (baby split), 6-9... been pretty

Would like to get good enough to shot a few more.
Here is some of my wish list...
Single Pin: working on the 2,8 it would be nice to get the 1 and 5.
Combo: 2-8, 3-9, 2-4-5 (all those combos) and 3-5-6 (all those combos)

Spares can make a game and missed spares can kill it! If you don't think spares are important, then why does the USBC have an award for all-spare game?

[Young300]

I second, third and fourth your thoughts Bubba. I find that sport conditions are much more fun and challenging than going to practice on just a plain house shot. You learn more about your game, your personal adjustments with your hand, feet, release, whatever is needed. The house shots just dont teach that. Sport conditions are a must when coming to something like this, and I am grateful for the time that I have been able to spend on them.

[BubbaRay]

This is what is going to make our next generation of PBA pros.

[Tinkerbell]

Well Gentlemen I am not a very good bowler again YET but I say that if you are willing to learn someting and stick with it and it requiers effort (for athletics) then it is a sport.I mean you do see it on ESPN right and that is a sports network.They dont show cloths and stuff.As far as the youth of today I think that if its something they really want then yes it shouldnt be easy and they should have to work for it as hard as the older folk around here did.Just because a lot of life is easier now doesnt mean everything should be.

Now for the questions(stop groaning I know I will drive you nuts with them just ask neowidow)can women try the PBA and how well do you really have to be to play on them.I mean are the oil conditions so tough that someone still learning like me should get some more time in before I try them?Or can I learn more about the game and the way I need to adjust myself to diffrent conditions be better taught on PBA conditions.For those of you that can't think like a women:Imean which way can I learn more aboput how to be a better bowler.:confused: :) :D

[ravenhammer]

Through my reading posts here, I have come to notice there are alot of young bowlers here looking for advice and help as well as us older kegglers looking to improve their game. It may seem like a lot but it is really very few who are really looking for help.

[ravenhammer]

Most of you older and some younger guy's and gals will agree with me that when we started bowling we were hoping to be good enough to turn pro.

The problem now is how many people want to turn pro now? Not too many. I only know of 3-4 bowlere who even watch the telecast each week.

[ravenhammer]

The reason I stunk was, I was in awe of all the pro's there and how they were bowling I didn't concentrate on my own game.
This happend to me a lot when I was learning to be a board op in radio. Training on the Rome Show was very hard because I was always intrested in what the guests were saying and not watching the clock. Now Dr. Laura, not so hard, just too stressful.

I do envy you you got to play on tour though. I agree with one of my teamates when i asked him why he never went pro. He said he didn't want to turn bowling into a job.

[ravenhammer]

Spares can make a game and missed spares can kill it! [If you don't think spares are important, then why does the USBC have an award for all-spare game?
What happens when you miss a strike? You can still shoot pretty good but miss a spare and not so much.

[TenPinSniper]

Now for the questions(stop groaning I know I will drive you nuts with them just ask neowidow)can women try the PBA and how well do you really have to be to play on them.I mean are the oil conditions so tough that someone still learning like me should get some more time in before I try them?Or can I learn more about the game and the way I need to adjust myself to diffrent conditions be better taught on PBA conditions.For those of you that can't think like a women:Imean which way can I learn more aboput how to be a better bowler.:confused: :) :D

Tink, personally I think all bowlers should be bowling a PBA Exp or a Sport League. It really shows you how good you are... you have to make solid choices-adjustments, ball selection... Plus the PBA Exp leagues change the patterns every few weeks or everyweek. This is why my wife is bowling on this league, with me, she just wants to get better. She carries 165 on House Shot, about 140 on the PBA Exp.

One of the things that I have learned is that short oil patterns, play like drier condition for me... Thats why the my good old buddy the Shark and I have become fast friends.

These leagues really get down to consistent shot making; speed, clean release, solid approach, good balance at the line...

Just remember this is suppose to be a fun experience. Personally I have more fun bowling on the PBA shots than my House Shot League.

[Rowdy]

Go read the new thread I just put up about the USBC.Then come back and tell me you still feel the same way.BTW-the tapes dont mean shit.Who says their THAT nites tapes? And with the variables allowed,it sure won't look like what you were expecting anyway!

[Quest36X]

Rowdy, I think you're missing the reasoning behind these leagues. It's to face patterns SIMILAR to what you see on TV. With all of the variables involved in bowling it is IMPOSSIBLE to simulate exactly what you see on TV. They will get close, occasionally. The idea behind these leagues is to bring back a more reasonable scoring pace and some amount of integrity to the game. It's a challenge. Sure, one house may not put out the Scorpion correctly, but the only one's that they're fooling is themselves. It still takes great bowling to score well on these "modified" patterns. Will I bowl in one of these leagues? Simple answer, no. I put down a 50 foot pattern every Sunday at my lanes requiring simple accuracy in every way. In leagues I want to win money and fund the trip to New Mexico.

[Rowdy]

Slap,I'm SO happy you had a beer within reach!!! I woulda felt bad for a long time if you had got hurt just because I'm thinking about rolling in a different league.After today though,man I'm more worried than ever about that deal.I"M not gonna waste my time and money on a league that even the USBC says is flawed.I'm continuing to do some homework on this league.I haven't made up my mind yet.But right now it's 75-25 I WON'T roll in it.Too much false representation from the top on down,can't go for that.With what I learned today,IF I bowled in that deal I wouldn't even keep track of the scores.It would be like 3 practice games for me right now.I guess whats REALLY bothering me is that I can't find ANY integrity in this league.Too many people are looking the other way just to make money off of me and you.That's NOT how it's supposed to be.I THINK this is gonna turn into some hot spots of PBA bowling and the rest will keep on with what we always had.Shit.I was looking forward to it,too.I GOTTA find a house on the square,know what I mean?Otherwise..........

[Rowdy]

So what you're saying it's like playing golf on a course the PGA just got done playing on.Is that about it?

[Quest36X]

It could be. Just don't know. Thats part of the problem. Don't know what you're going to get. But when do you really?

[BubbaRay]

Well this the last I will say about this. I'm kinda sorry I started this thread. The point of it was to show bowlers are improving by bowling on these conditions. Tell Tommy Jones, Walter Ray, Pete Weber and the rest of ther PBA that they should be bowling on house conditions. The PBA has NEVER I repeat NEVER bowled on house conditions.

If you don't want to throw on these conditions it's your choice. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO IMPROVE ANY WAY ON A HOUSE SHOT. Plain and simple. What fun is itgoing to a house and all you have to do is kick the ball in the track area and it strikes.

Oh and if you think these conditions are tough, wait till NM next year.


This game has got to stop being compared to golf. This is not golf. It's a whole different sport.

[Toolman-Tim]

your right bubba this is not golf, we dont chase our balls they come back to us.:)

[can-ham]

Bubba I agree with most of what you say and would love to try a PBA league.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO IMPROVE ANY WAY ON A HOUSE SHOT.

How ever this statement is crap! There are allot of bowlers that aren't elite that do improve on a house shot. Like myself over my first three years of bowling. Yes high scores are up but if this was so easy then every one will average 250+. I agree the scores are higher these days but you still need to pick up your spares. An elite or die hard bowler will benefit from these leagues, but the causal bowler and yes there are bowlers with 150 averages and under that just like to bowl in leagues, will absolutely hate these leagues or not even notice as they pipe their plastic house ball up the middle.

http://www.nik.co.uk/wp-content/2006_bowling_ruth_aston.jpg

[JoshWithrow]

Go read the new thread I just put up about the USBC.Then come back and tell me you still feel the same way.BTW-the tapes dont mean shit.Who says their THAT nites tapes? And with the variables allowed,it sure won't look like what you were expecting anyway!

I'll bet you use a whole roll of tin foil when you make your tin foil hats, huh Rowdy?

[BubbaRay]

Bubba I agree with most of what you say and would love to try a PBA league.



How ever this statement is crap! There are allot of bowlers that aren't elite that do improve on a house shot. Like myself over my first three years of bowling. Yes high scores are up but if this was so easy then every one will average 250+. I agree the scores are higher these days but you still need to pick up your spares. An elite or die hard bowler will benefit from these leagues, but the causal bowler and yes there are bowlers with 150 averages and under that just like to bowl in leagues, will absolutely hate these leagues or not even notice as they pipe their plastic house ball up the middle.

http://www.nik.co.uk/wp-content/2006_bowling_ruth_aston.jpg

can-ham. my bad. I should have been more clear. Wqhat I meant by that statment was that the bowlers who avg. 230= on house shots will not impprove any more on those condiditons. The avg. bowler will improve . IU am sorry I wasn't clear enough.

[can-ham]

can-ham. my bad. I should have been more clear. Wqhat I meant by that statment was that the bowlers who avg. 230= on house shots will not impprove any more on those condiditons. The avg. bowler will improve . IU am sorry I wasn't clear enough.

Cool, actually it's my bad for still improving on a house shot. One day with the help of this forum I hope to max out at 230 :D

[Tinkerbell]

Tink, personally I think all bowlers should be bowling a PBA Exp or a Sport League. It really shows you how good you are... you have to make solid choices-adjustments, ball selection... Plus the PBA Exp leagues change the patterns every few weeks or everyweek. This is why my wife is bowling on this league, with me, she just wants to get better. She carries 165 on House Shot, about 140 on the PBA Exp.

One of the things that I have learned is that short oil patterns, play like drier condition for me... Thats why the my good old buddy the Shark and I have become fast friends.

These leagues really get down to consistent shot making; speed, clean release, solid approach, good balance at the line...

Just remember this is suppose to be a fun experience. Personally I have more fun bowling on the PBA shots than my House Shot League.

Thanks TenPin.I think that although I am not that good yet if I try on these patterns it would be perfect for me as I found I can bowl better an Dry lanes.So far my best game has been on Dry.I know some of you live Around me but I dont know how to find the lanes with these patterns.Maybe you can tell me what to look for.:D

[slap]

[QUOTE=Rowdy;29999]BTW-the tapes dont mean shit.Who says their THAT nites tapes? QUOTE]

Okay so tapes don't matter....and with that folks I'm off topic.

[Rowdy]

Bubba- you can't improve on a house shot?Want some of my drugs or are the ones you're taking doing the trick?We didn't all come from the PBA tour.Sorry if the lanes aren't "up" to your standards.Must be terrible being forced to bowl with the common folk.If you can't improve on a house shot then why does the league give out an award for doing just that?I've watched people get better and better bowling at two or more DIFFERENT houses a week.So theres no real getting used to one houses shot.I'm gonna try to bowl at three different houses this winter.Where is the "house shot" gonna help me?And just to keep it interesting,I'll be practicing at a different house than those three.So there's no help on the "House shot" there.And to really turn up the heat,I would like one of those leagues to be a PBA league.Is this getting hard enough for you yet?Oh yeah,I'll also only be taking the SAME two strike balls to ALL the leagues.NOW is it hard enough?Should I bowl with my eyes closed?Left handed?What would bring it up to your standards?I really want to know.

[BradM]

Bubba- you can't improve on a house shot?Want some of my drugs or are the ones you're taking doing the trick?We didn't all come from the PBA tour.Sorry if the lanes aren't "up" to your standards.Must be terrible being forced to bowl with the common folk.If you can't improve on a house shot then why does the league give out an award for doing just that?I've watched people get better and better bowling at two or more DIFFERENT houses a week.So theres no real getting used to one houses shot.I'm gonna try to bowl at three different houses this winter.Where is the "house shot" gonna help me?And just to keep it interesting,I'll be practicing at a different house than those three.So there's no help on the "House shot" there.And to really turn up the heat,I would like one of those leagues to be a PBA league.Is this getting hard enough for you yet?Oh yeah,I'll also only be taking the SAME two strike balls to ALL the leagues.NOW is it hard enough?Should I bowl with my eyes closed?Left handed?What would bring it up to your standards?I really want to know.

can-ham. my bad. I should have been more clear. Wqhat I meant by that statment was that the bowlers who avg. 230= on house shots will not impprove any more on those condiditons. The avg. bowler will improve . I am sorry I wasn't clear enough.


I think he already explained himself.

[Rowdy]

So you belive that around 230 is it?There's no more after that?Come on,there's SEVENTY more pins to be had!If and when I get to 230 then the next target will be 240.I belive thats what Hammer wants you to average to be considered for them to help you out.I plan on making it there,"house shot",PBA shot,don't matter to me.I WILL take a Hammer,find a line and get the score.

[BubbaRay]

Bubba- you can't improve on a house shot?Want some of my drugs or are the ones you're taking doing the trick?We didn't all come from the PBA tour.Sorry if the lanes aren't "up" to your standards.Must be terrible being forced to bowl with the common folk.If you can't improve on a house shot then why does the league give out an award for doing just that?I've watched people get better and better bowling at two or more DIFFERENT houses a week.So theres no real getting used to one houses shot.I'm gonna try to bowl at three different houses this winter.Where is the "house shot" gonna help me?And just to keep it interesting,I'll be practicing at a different house than those three.So there's no help on the "House shot" there.And to really turn up the heat,I would like one of those leagues to be a PBA league.Is this getting hard enough for you yet?Oh yeah,I'll also only be taking the SAME two strike balls to ALL the leagues.NOW is it hard enough?Should I bowl with my eyes closed?Left handed?What would bring it up to your standards?I really want to know.

No one was shooting the messanger in your post. Just stating facts and opinions .
First of all I was called an asshole now I'm on drugs. Rowdy chill out. I never said THS are not up to my Standards. And let me say one thing, I don't hold myself on a pedastel being I am a PBA member and was on tour. And bowling with common folk as YOU say, I bowl with regular league bowlers like MYSELF every day and night. I have also seen people improve week to week on THS's. I have also seen so called good bowlers on bowl in houses they can score 240 + on any day of the week. They won't bowl in any other house. because if they do their scores are lower and egos get hurt. I have challanged them many many times to shoot for money in a neutral house and the answer is always NO. I don't see where the challange is bowling in a house where you could roll the ball with two hands like a 4 year old and make it strike. This is bowling? Not in my eyes.

You want to bowl with your eyes closed, left handed or whatever it's your choice. And again I repeat , I AM NOT SAYING THESE ARE MY STANDARDS. I make a opinionated post and now I am being attacked with names and other things. I came here to offer help and advice . Not to get this crap. You apologized before about the name calling and you turn right around and put words into my mouth stating these are my standards. And I am on drugs. Get off that High almighty podium you are on.

Now, you want a challange I'll give you one and bring your two strike balls or whatever. I challange you to a 3 game match in a neutral house anywhere for $1000 a game. It could even be in NM next year I don't care. I'll be there for the Open anyways .You bowl on a PBA pattern and I will bowl on a THP and see what the outcome is. Guess who's gonna win? One mor remark from you with name calling and saying I am on drugs, and I will personally call Hammer myself and report it. Now I'm starting to get PO'd. GET THE POINT?


NEXT TIME I AM OUT OF HERE FOR SURE.

[Thepainscoming]

No one was shooting the messanger in your post. Just stating facts and opinions .
First of all I was called an asshole now I'm on drugs. Rowdy chill out. I never said THS are not up to my Standards. And let me say one thing, I don't hold myself on a pedastel being I am a PBA member and was on tour. And bowling with common folk as YOU say, I bowl with regular league bowlers like MYSELF every day and night. I have also seen people improve week to week on THS's. I have also seen so called good bowlers on bowl in houses they can score 240 + on any day of the week. They won't bowl in any other house. because if they do their scores are lower and egos get hurt. I have challanged them many many times to shoot for money in a neutral house and the answer is always NO. I don't see where the challange is bowling in a house where you could roll the ball with two hands like a 4 year old and make it strike. This is bowling? Not in my eyes.

You want to bowl with your eyes closed, left handed or whatever it's your choice. And again I repeat , I AM NOT SAYING THESE ARE MY STANDARDS. I make a opinionated post and now I am being attacked with names and other things. I came here to offer help and advice . Not to get this crap. You apologized before about the name calling and you turn right around and put words into my mouth stating these are my standards. And I am on drugs. Get off that High almighty podium you are on.

Now, you want a challange I'll give you one and bring your two strike balls or whatever. I challange you to a 3 game match in a neutral house anywhere for $1000 a game. It could even be in NM next year I don't care. I'll be there for the Open anyways .You bowl on a PBA pattern and I will bowl on a THP and see what the outcome is. Guess who's gonna win? One mor remark from you with name calling and saying I am on drugs, and I will personally call Hammer myself and report it. Now I'm starting to get PO'd. GET THE POINT?


NEXT TIME I AM OUT OF HERE FOR SURE.Good job Bubba Ray, i know Rowdy's been pissing a lot of people off. Once i get to 1000 posts, and this keeps going on, i'm out of here. I just want to get to the 4 digits

[BubbaRay]

Good job Bubba Ray, i know Rowdy's been pissing a lot of people off. Once i get to 1000 posts, and this keeps going on, i'm out of here. I just want to get to the 4 digits

Don't leave jusy yet. I value your opinions and I must say I value your advice to the other bowlers out there. You put up some very good advice and help.

[Thepainscoming]

Don't leave jusy yet. I value your opinions and I must say I value your advice to the other bowlers out there. You put up some very good advice and help. Like i said, if it keeps continuing, i'm gone. Thanks for that. But this forum has gone completely down hill. ANd it happenned to be when rowdy came on. Just an observation.

[JoshWithrow]

Like i said, if it keeps continuing, i'm gone. Thanks for that. But this forum has gone completely down hill. ANd it happenned to be when rowdy came on. Just an observation.

Ouch. Now c'mon don't be like that. We all have our highs and lows. Some of us just need to learn to represent ourselves and convey our feelings better, myself included. Cursing/Cussing, Namecalling, etc... not good. It makes you look like an immature dolt, IMHO. But apparently so does posting funny pictures ;)

To be short, if something on the internet makes you that angry it's time to take a time-out. Getting angry at meaningless words is just silly.

And aside from all that... I'll miss your sweet manloving. I need your oh so hairyness by my side. I need to feel your hot, liquor and smoke laiden breath stabbing at my eyes and nostrils. And most of all I want you to have my manbabies.

[BubbaRay]

To be very truthful with everyone. I came here because I was asked to. To offer help, advice and encouragement. Seems lately I have to defend myself . Not what I came here expecting.

Not once have I ever bashed him. Heck I agreed with him many time with his advice. And this is what I get in return. Don't need it.

[JoshWithrow]

To be very truthful with everyone. I came here because I was asked to. To offer help, advice and encouragement. Seems lately I have to defend myself . Not what I came here expecting.

Not once have I ever bashed him. Heck I agreed with him many time with his advice. And this is what I get in return. Don't need it.

Bubba I need your manlove too... in the words of Boys II Men... PLEASE DON'T GOOO!!!! NO NO NO NO NO Please don't go... Please don't go away from me!!!

[Thepainscoming]

Ouch. Now c'mon don't be like that. We all have our highs and lows. Some of us just need to learn to represent ourselves and convey our feelings better, myself included. Cursing/Cussing, Namecalling, etc... not good. It makes you look like an immature dolt, IMHO. But apparently so does posting funny pictures ;)

To be short, if something on the internet makes you that angry it's time to take a time-out. Getting angry at meaningless words is just silly.

And aside from all that... I'll miss your sweet manloving. I need your oh so hairyness by my side. I need to feel your hot, liquor and smoke laiden breath stabbing at my eyes and nostrils. And most of all I want you to have my manbabies.O yeah i know. I might just leave for a little and comeback when it hopefully calms down. ROFLMAO

To be very truthful with everyone. I came here because I was asked to. To offer help, advice and encouragement. Seems lately I have to defend myself . Not what I came here expecting.

Not once have I ever bashed him. Heck I agreed with him many time with his advice. And this is what I get in return. Don't need it.
It was good to finally have a pba member come on because u gave a good insight on how things are actually on tour. I don't remember u bashing anybody. Its just not right.

1000

[JoshWithrow]

It was good to finally have a pba member come on because u gave a good insight on how things are actually on tour. I don't remember u bashing anybody. Its just not right.

1000

Grats lol

And I agree. You're a valuable member. One day I hope to pass your vast knowledge onto newbies... after I've applied it and profited from it ;)

[Thepainscoming]

Grats lol

And I agree. You're a valuable member. One day I hope to pass your vast knowledge onto newbies... after I've applied it and profited from it ;)
Thanks. For a kid, i read up on a lot.

[TenPinSniper]

Great job! Been wondering if this place seems to be slowing down... the quality of new threads is way down. Maybe its just summer???

But hey some of our members who have stopped in, where wondering what had been going on!

[BradM]

Great job! Been wondering if this place seems to be slowing down... the quality of new threads is way down. Maybe its just summer???

But hey some of our members who have stopped in, where wondering what had been going on!


I blame it on summer too. There are several regulars that dropped off when the season ended. BlackWidow95, Eightball, and several others.

BubbaRay, please do stick around. I assure you that a lot people enjoy your posts and comments. You know what they say, don't let 1 bad apple spoil the barrel.

[can-ham]

To be very truthful with everyone. I came here because I was asked to. To offer help, advice and encouragement. Seems lately I have to defend myself . Not what I came here expecting.

Not once have I ever bashed him. Heck I agreed with him many time with his advice. And this is what I get in return. Don't need it.

Yo Bubba, you can't take off, because you're hooked! I know your hooked because your passion about bowling and passing along your knowledge comes through in your posts. It's a shame if some new poster who post 700 times in two months drives you or anyone away. This forum is a great source of communal knowledge and you sir have allot to give!

Rowdy has some good posts and different views which is what makes this forum so great. However every obsessed mega poster who starts freaking out on people and swearing usually ends up getting banned...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e290/BN4chan/macro/banned.jpg

[TenPinSniper]

I blame it on summer too. There are several regulars that dropped off when the season ended. BlackWidow95, Eightball, and several others.

BubbaRay, please do stick around. I assure you that a lot people enjoy your posts and comments. You know what they say, don't let 1 bad apple spoil the barrel.


Hopefully those guys do comeback... this place has cycled some people through. Hopefully it will get better, before the fall. Don't want this current drama, to run off some of the others.

[BradM]

Hopefully those guys do comeback... this place has cycled some people through. Hopefully it will get better, before the fall. Don't want this current drama, to run off some of the others.


I'm sure there are several people hoping I'll fall into that cycle and disappear.

And you're right, people, save the drama fo yo momma.:D

[BubbaRay]

I'm still here guy's and thanks for the nice wrods.

I di agree Rowdy doea have great posts with advice and helpful information, I never will take that away. This is what we are all here for. But in my eye, it doesn't matter if I have 2,000 posts or 1 post. As long as that 1 post helped someone that's all that matters to me.


I'm still here though.

[hammeredinkansas]

I left the forum before the end of last season for this very reason. There was more bad mouthing and nasty comments made than good information. It has improved since coming back, but there's still too much crap. Even a post that starts out good, sometimes turns to endless bickering. Differing opinions are great, but slamming someone for expressing their's is unnessecary. I do enjoy the good natured banter, but even that sometimes gets blown out of proportion. Let's try to keep this forum focused on what it's intended...bowling and the enjoyment of the game.

*stepping off soapbox now*

[SplitMaster]

I left the forum before the end of last season for this very reason. There was more bad mouthing and nasty comments made than good information. It has improved since coming back, but there's still too much crap. Even a post that starts out good, sometimes turns to endless bickering. Differing opinions are great, but slamming someone for expressing their's is unnessecary. I do enjoy the good natured banter, but even that sometimes gets blown out of proportion. Let's try to keep this forum focused on what it's intended...bowling and the enjoyment of the game.

*stepping off soapbox now*


Couldnt have put it better myself. I usually ask questions and shoot in a reply here and there. I rarely give advice being there are a couple guys here that know everything and if you say something, they will tell you that you are wrong and push their opinions upon you. I really do get sick of this and have not been on here as much lately due to that very reason. Its very easy to be a tough guy on the internet, but it also shows your level of life and how you look at things. Bowling is bowling..do it...love it...hate it...or whatever, but when people start cursing and hollering at each other, its stupid. I can pretty much bet you that he person cursing wouldnt do it in that mans face. That's thats just my take, being I aint one to put up with a bunch of crap..HammeredInKansas...that was a perfect reply to this post and for this, I thank you. I enjoy this forum when there is information here to be taken for useful help. So with that being said, everyone enjoy their day!

[MessiahsHammer]

I left the forum before the end of last season for this very reason. There was more bad mouthing and nasty comments made than good information. It has improved since coming back, but there's still too much crap. Even a post that starts out good, sometimes turns to endless bickering. Differing opinions are great, but slamming someone for expressing their's is unnessecary. I do enjoy the good natured banter, but even that sometimes gets blown out of proportion. Let's try to keep this forum focused on what it's intended...bowling and the enjoyment of the game.

*stepping off soapbox now*


I agree I joined not that long ago and I have seen the same thing... There has been great post here that have given great advice but unfortunately those have been out weighed by mind numbing ones... Then you have the ones that started great and would be helpful to other but gets ruined half way by 2 people that want to argue... I hope a forum like this where everyone has something to give to others would be utilized better... The bickering, name calling, rude remarks and spamming need to go... If you want to do these things go to a brunswick forum :D... I hope that we get more informational threads going because I think we all want to improve our game...


For the bowler on the go
http://www.kraj-lbc.cz/public/images/small_0505f2bd18_mobil_bowling.jpg

[Thepainscoming]

I agree I joined not that long ago and I have seen the same thing... There has been great post here that have given great advice but unfortunately those have been out weighed by mind numbing ones... Then you have the ones that started great and would be helpful to other but gets ruined half way by 2 people that want to argue... I hope a forum like this where everyone has something to give to others would be utilized better... The bickering, name calling, rude remarks and spamming need to go... If you want to do these things go to a brunswick forum :D... I hope that we get more informational threads going because I think we all want to improve our game...


For the bowler on the go
http://www.kraj-lbc.cz/public/images/small_0505f2bd18_mobil_bowling.jpg
I call dibs on that car. Only 3 more years till i can drive.

[BubbaRay]

And if I may guess , that ball looks to be a No Mercy. :D

[Thepainscoming]

And if I may guess , that ball looks to be a No Mercy. :D
Yeah i think so but than y would u start all the way to the right, I would be on the left gutter with that ball.

[JoshWithrow]

As long as that 1 post helped someone that's all that matters to me.

At least that makes 2 of us that don't care about post count ;)

[Thepainscoming]

At least that makes 2 of us that don't care about post count ;)
Hey i'm sorry i was already up there and i was just thinking it would be awesome to have 4 digits.

[BradM]

At least that makes 2 of us that don't care about post count ;)

Yeah right, I've overheard you talking about hacking the site to give your 10,000 posts so you can brag.:D

[JoshWithrow]

Hey i'm sorry i was already up there and i was just thinking it would be awesome to have 4 digits.

Don't be sorry... just accept your spam cou... er, post count goal ;)



Yeah right, I've overheard you talking about hacking the site to give your 10,000 posts so you can brag.

Tattletail. Just for that, when I do it, I'm going to REDUCE yours to -1092. :p

[Thepainscoming]

Don't be sorry... just accept your spam cou... er, post count goal ;)





Tattletail. Just for that, when I do it, I'm going to REDUCE yours to -1092. :p
LOL its ok, i already got my post count goal. Next is the spam goal.

[Young300]

So, from reading all the 73 pages of useless babble on this thread... What's it about again..?:D

[blistershurt]

Nice post. As being a younger bowler I personally think that the leagues are almost like school.

Start off bowling on a non difficult house shot, then when you get your average to 190-210 range and get down the sparing fundamentals go to Sport shots. The Sport shots will prove how good you are, then when you get to bowling on a sport shot like a house shot you should try for the PBA patterns.

Personally, there arent enough people out there who think they need to do Sport shot leagues, so around here there is ONE (!) sport shot league per house, and about 3 houses around town run PBA experience leagues. One thing that makes me mad however, is that the houses around me do not run Sport shot youth leagues, but do run PBA Experience Youth leagues.

Well all in all, I think the houses dont give a damn about the sport but rather all the money involved and rather than making people challenge themselves they help people flatter themselves by having leagues mostly comprised of shots that guide the ball to the pocket (I.E. the classic 10 to 10 pattern with light or clean backends)

[BubbaRay]

Yeah i think so but than y would u start all the way to the right, I would be on the left gutter with that ball.


Maybe it has a lot of negative side weight in it. LOL :D ;)

[JoshWithrow]

I think the houses dont give a damn about the sport but rather all the money involved and rather than making people challenge themselves they help people flatter themselves by having leagues mostly comprised of shots that guide the ball to the pocket (I.E. the classic 10 to 10 pattern with light or clean backends)

Exactly. But you do have to remember that running a house is not about morale... it's about capital. They're running a business. Any business oriented/involved person would do what was necessary to make sure they're getting paid.

However, I do believe it'd be nice if a balance could be found.

[blistershurt]

I know the house is focused on capitol, but in my opinion they already accomodate for normal bowlers enough with the long hours of open play and with the shot they put down for the open play. I wish they would maybe make a few more sport shot leagues and maybe a youth one as well. I currently am stuck on bone dry lanes for youth leagues. It makes me mad. The closest thing they have to sport shots, is a league that they put a regular shot down on. Houses make me mad about sport shots, especially when they have the means. I mean...hell, they could trick over half their customers and just start putting down sport shots because over half of the league bowlers at this house dont know why their balls are overhooking or how to stop it, they dont notice oil half the time. The bowlers who know what they are doing would be happy with a tougher shot more than likely, they'd still be better than everyone else out there. I mean. I'm a youth and I am already preparing myself for the sport shots. I'm perfecting a few lines right now. I still cant throw the inside angle, but I have down 3 lines. I have a down and in shot already, a shot that is down and in that I swing out to the 3 board, and a smooth arc. I've learned more on my own in the last year than most league bowlers at this house know. Its sad. I think they should be forced to learn, but that's just me and my Bowling Nazi side.

Good point though Josh.

[EIGHTBALL033]

I blame it on summer too. There are several regulars that dropped off when the season ended. BlackWidow95, Eightball, and several others.

BubbaRay, please do stick around. I assure you that a lot people enjoy your posts and comments. You know what they say, don't let 1 bad apple spoil the barrel.

I DROPPED OFF BECAUSE SEEMS LIKE FUN AND AGREEING TO DISAGREE IS HARD TO DO,LOT BULLSHIT DEBATES THAT BECOME ENDLESS,I BOWL 2 LEAGUES AS OF TODAY,I CHECK SITE EVERYDAY,BUT DON'T POST IF I DONT FEEL ITS WORTH IT,LOT OF GOOD ADVICE AND KNOWLEDGE AND THOSE SHARING PLEASE STAY,DONT LET THE FEW KNOW IT ALLS RUN YOU OUT,BUT I CAN SEE WHY YOU WANT TO,MORE CONFLICK THEN HELP LATELY,JUST MY OPINION,THX FOR NOTICING BRAD,BUT I JUST CHOSE TO SIT BACK,LOT OF FUN HAS BEEN TAKING OUT BY BULLSHIT DEBATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:,OUTSIDE OF CRAP LATELY, I THANK ALL THOSE THAT SHARE NEWCOMERS OR REGULARS,BUT ITS BEEN WACKY LATELY,BUT IM STILL HERE BUT NOT SEEN,GREAT SITE STILL,FIRST THING I CHECK EVERYDAY.

[TenPinSniper]

I DROPPED OFF BECAUSE SEEMS LIKE FUN AND AGREEING TO DISAGREE IS HARD TO DO,LOT BULLSHIT DEBATES THAT BECOME ENDLESS,I BOWL 2 LEAGUES AS OF TODAY,I CHECK SITE EVERYDAY,BUT DON'T POST IF I DONT FEEL ITS WORTH IT,LOT OF GOOD ADVICE AND KNOWLEDGE AND THOSE SHARING PLEASE STAY,DONT LET THE FEW KNOW IT ALLS RUN YOU OUT,BUT I CAN SEE WHY YOU WANT TO,MORE CONFLICK THEN HELP LATELY,JUST MY OPINION,THX FOR NOTICING BRAD,BUT I JUST CHOSE TO SIT BACK,LOT OF FUN HAS BEEN TAKING OUT BY BULLSHIT DEBATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:,OUTSIDE OF CRAP LATELY, I THANK ALL THOSE THAT SHARE NEWCOMERS OR REGULARS,BUT ITS BEEN WACKY LATELY,BUT IM STILL HERE BUT NOT SEEN,GREAT SITE STILL,FIRST THING I CHECK EVERYDAY.

Good to know you are still here with us.

[EIGHTBALL033]

Good to know you are still here with us.
GOOD SEE YOU ARE STILL HERE TOO.:cool:

[TenPinSniper]

GOOD SEE YOU ARE STILL HERE TOO.:cool:

Thx 8-Ball... just hope we can keep this forum. The lack of respect to one another that has been shown... wow!

We all are different, have views and have the right not to agree!

[MessiahsHammer]

I know the house is focused on capitol, but in my opinion they already accomodate for normal bowlers enough with the long hours of open play and with the shot they put down for the open play. I wish they would maybe make a few more sport shot leagues and maybe a youth one as well. I currently am stuck on bone dry lanes for youth leagues. It makes me mad. The closest thing they have to sport shots, is a league that they put a regular shot down on. Houses make me mad about sport shots, especially when they have the means. I mean...hell, they could trick over half their customers and just start putting down sport shots because over half of the league bowlers at this house dont know why their balls are overhooking or how to stop it, they dont notice oil half the time. The bowlers who know what they are doing would be happy with a tougher shot more than likely, they'd still be better than everyone else out there. I mean. I'm a youth and I am already preparing myself for the sport shots. I'm perfecting a few lines right now. I still cant throw the inside angle, but I have down 3 lines. I have a down and in shot already, a shot that is down and in that I swing out to the 3 board, and a smooth arc. I've learned more on my own in the last year than most league bowlers at this house know. Its sad. I think they should be forced to learn, but that's just me and my Bowling Nazi side.

Good point though Josh.


Blister I think you bring up a great point... I know at my house that they made almost 20,000$ over there goal... They did have a sports shot for 7 weeks then ditched it cuz not enough people were doing it... Now in my pba league we have had half the league quit because there egos were bruised... Mine included, down to 184 with 5 weeks left... Anyways they will be ditching the pba league in fall because not enough people... I wish people would try and grow in there game instead of worrying about what there ave is on a house shot and I hope that houses can make this possible...

[BradM]

I DROPPED OFF BECAUSE SEEMS LIKE FUN AND AGREEING TO DISAGREE IS HARD TO DO,LOT BULLSHIT DEBATES THAT BECOME ENDLESS,I BOWL 2 LEAGUES AS OF TODAY,I CHECK SITE EVERYDAY,BUT DON'T POST IF I DONT FEEL ITS WORTH IT,LOT OF GOOD ADVICE AND KNOWLEDGE AND THOSE SHARING PLEASE STAY,DONT LET THE FEW KNOW IT ALLS RUN YOU OUT,BUT I CAN SEE WHY YOU WANT TO,MORE CONFLICK THEN HELP LATELY,JUST MY OPINION,THX FOR NOTICING BRAD,BUT I JUST CHOSE TO SIT BACK,LOT OF FUN HAS BEEN TAKING OUT BY BULLSHIT DEBATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:,OUTSIDE OF CRAP LATELY, I THANK ALL THOSE THAT SHARE NEWCOMERS OR REGULARS,BUT ITS BEEN WACKY LATELY,BUT IM STILL HERE BUT NOT SEEN,GREAT SITE STILL,FIRST THING I CHECK EVERYDAY.


I should probably sit back and keep my mouth shut more than I do. Hope you start posting more often 8ball.

[EIGHTBALL033]

I should probably sit back and keep my mouth shut more than I do. Hope you start posting more often 8ball.

AND FUN,I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH FUN,JUST THE PERSONAL ATTACKS AND SENSELESS DEBATES,BUT IM ONLY 1 PERSON VOICEING MY OPINION,I HAVE NEVER HAD PROBLEM WITH YOU AND ALOT OF OTHERS,LIKE I SAID THIS IS GREAT SITE,VERY FUN AT TIMES AND INFORMITIVE,JUST HOPE IT STAYS THAT WAY THATS ALL I WAS SAYING,THX FOR RESPONSE BRAD:cool:

[Speedyhammer]

Hey Hoss,
It seems like theres some kinda rules heres on what way u writes.
Stop hoillerin,we can hears ya.
Someones got on me about the space and enter keys.
Hows
this?
Happy
camper
now,
chumps?