Important message from the USBC

[Rowdy]

First things first.There are gonna be some rules to read this because of the nature of the info I got,and how I got it.
1. I will NOT tell you the persons name that gave me this info.The person does NOT want to lose their job.
2.You DON'T shoot the messenger.That would be ME.If you don't like the post,tough shit.But EVERY word of it is true.I swear to God.
3.The person that gave me this info knows who I am on here.People in the USBC read our stuff EVERY morning with their coffee.You don't like what you are about to read,YOU take it up with THEM!Not ME!
Everybody understand?EVERYBODY?!?!? Good. Now for the news...
I called the USBC this am to drop the dime on the house that I KNEW was gonna rip-off the PBA league this winter. I couldn't let it go by when I knew what was gonna happen to friends of mine. The person at the USBC was VERY interested in what I had to say. This house has had their probs with the USBC in the past. But nothing like this. We talked about the house,the owner and what was going on there the past few seasons. They most likely won't make it through the winter as a USBC house.Please keep in mind that this person is VERY knowledgeable about sport bowling.I asked Them how you could tell if the correct pattern was on the lane.The answer was,you can't!You just have to take the houses word for it whats on the lanes.Then we talked about laying these patterns down.Did you know that there is leeway in every pattern?If the pattern calls for oil out to the 10th board,the oil could ACTUALLY be anywhere between the 8th to the 12th board and still be a legal pattern.Big deal,you say.Well,it is.I was told that there could be as much as 8 boards difference between the same pattern and that was acceptable to the USBC!So the shark you shoot on might be way different from the shark at the next house down the road.As far as where the oil ends on the pattern,theres the same variable.was told it could be as much as 3 to 4 feet off!Some houses will be stopping the pattern SHORT of the pins by about 4 feet!Can you say big hook at the end? The USBC knows that every house can't afford the proper equipment to lay some of these patterns down.As long as they make a "reasonable effort" the USBC will turn a blind eye to the actual pattern.Then I asked how many houses were going to try and cheat on this league by laying some crappy pattern down and pushing it off on YOU that it's the real deal.This person said I couldn't have the EXACT number,but if I got close they would stop me.My first guess was 50.No,higher.100?Nope.150?no way,Jose.200?Closer.250?No,now you're too high.So there is gonna be somewhere between 200 and 250 houses that are gonna screw YOU nine ways from Sunday.The USBC knows all this and will TRY to catch the houses by watching the scores that come in.So if you figure out a pattern and shoot too big a number,the USBC will come knocking on the door to check your lanes for cheating!Ain't America wonderfull?Bowl good and get your ass in a crack for it!BTW-seems there's been a rash of illegal balls winning tournaments this past spring.Too much weight on one side for a nice,hard hook.Was told that the next person caught with an illeagal ball in a tourney,wether you win or not,WILL be made an example of.As in life time suspension.Buh-bye,no appeal and don't let the door hit your sorry ass on the way out forever!We talked on some other stuff,was told the USBC knows the sport patterns won't last.They were put out there until something better could be found.They are really interested in what WE here have to say.Was told we have the BEST discussions on bowling on the web!They're thinking,we're thinking and someones gonna hit on the combo that the MAJORITY of bowlers can live with!They want to try and get the old league players back,but not make it so hard that first timers get frustrated after one season and head for the door.That's about all there was bowling wise,the rest was personal stuff.So put those thinking caps on and lets come up with the next great thing!

[BubbaRay]

Not trying to start anything Rowdy but I don't buy it at all.

Before the USBC was the ABC. They always came nocking to to houses that put down easy shots and always had big number scores. The only one going to make money here is the USBC

[slap]

I'm sure there are some facts in there but I'm not buying the whole story either.

Sport leagues have strict lane taping requirements. Again, I've heard this is a major hassle for the centers but it ends any debate about the shot. I don't see how this is an issue.

Of course there is variance in the patterns. The type of lane, condition of said lane, the type of machine, the brand of oil etc etc etc all factor in. Also it's up to the center to decide the volume of oil, the sport regulations only specify a ratio range. I've played the shark in two houses this summer and they shot was different. Similar but not exactly the same. Even the touring pro comment that the pattern do not play the same from house to house.

Will sport leagues last? Only time will tell on that one...

[mongoliantreesloth]

Jeez mate - ever heard of punctuation?

p.s. BANG!

[JoshWithrow]

Sorry, Rowdy, but I need more to go off than "somebody told me all this [BLARGH] but I can't tell you who it is". BTW, not everything in life is a conspiracy, and everybody's not out to get you.

http://seoblackhat.com/upimage/tinfoilhat.jpg

[bigsexyhammer]

That was quite possibly the hardest thing I have ever tried to read in my entire life...

It's not the punctuation, that is there... It is the lack of spaces between the punctuation and the next sentence/thought/rant. And the fact that it is all one paragraph...

Hit enter buddy...hit enter.;)

[can-ham]

Rowdy true or not this is a very cool thread. I love a good conspiracy theory in the morning!


Ok USBC if your listening. I want a one ball (or ball type) sport league. If it's ball type basically allow the bowlers to use one (or two strike balls) of a list of sanctioned balls for that shot.
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/916512/2/istockphoto_916512_one_ball.jpg
Maybe a short list of different approved balls for strokers, cankers and tweeners. The deal would be for each category there could be a few different brand (hammer included of course) with similar RG and differentials and surface friction. Maybe even give the required specs to the ball manufactures for said condition, and they can choose to participate or not. Of course allow a plastic spare ball. I believe there was a hammer black widow tournament which seemed like cool idea, maybe a league like this would be fun. I understand different equipment matches up differently to different bowlers and styles that's why you have a variance in possible balls.

I now this is a little out there but I'm just thinking out loud, but might be fun to try...

[bluerrpilot]

Don’t houses have to purchase a license to put out a PBA or sport pattern?

[BradM]

Ratting people out to the USBC?

Rowdy that's a mighty nice glass house you're living in.:D


http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/corbis/DGT088/42-17077089.jpg

http://www.hawaii-county.com/parks/ead/images/bowling1.jpg

[SplitMaster]

I think I just peed in my pants a little bit I laughed so hard

[can-ham]

oh snap!

http://www.reviewjournal.com/images/webextras/gallery/moran/low_blow.jpg

[slap]

Don’t houses have to purchase a license to put out a PBA or sport pattern?

From what I've been told they have to pay offical pba experience or sport certified league but but various generic sport patterns are free.

[Tinkerbell]

Okay everyone:I know it is hard to belive but yes what Rowdy posted is true about what he was told.And Brad he is not ratting everyone just one house in perticular.They deserve it.Now it all may not be word for word what he was told but it was true.he is many things but not a liar.And yes i was there for the conversation.So believe it or not that is up to you.Or you can always call the USBC and ask yourself.FYI he was letting you all know to see if there was any ideas out there that might help all Hammerheads so if you do put up a high score no one has problums.

[can-ham]

FYI he was letting you all know to see if there was any ideas out there that might help all Hammerheads so if you do put up a high score no one has problems.

I'm sure Flir must make a product that lets you see the lane oil :D
http://www.militaryinfrared.com/images/PVS-15_night-vision-goggles-dual-tube.jpg

[Tinkerbell]

I'm sure Flir must make a product that lets you see the lane oil :D
http://www.militaryinfrared.com/images/PVS-15_night-vision-goggles-dual-tube.jpg

OOOOHHHHH Baby that look is ssoooo sexy!!!!!!!!!:D

[slap]

Hammerheads so if you do put up a high score no one has problums.

I wonder how anyone is going to have a problem considering the latest news at bowl.com is the USBC dropped the requirement for a lane tape to be taken within 30 days of an honor score.

[TenPinSniper]

http://www.militaryinfrared.com/images/PVS-15_night-vision-goggles-dual-tube.jpg

This should be on my tenpin ball!

[Thepainscoming]

I'm sure Flir must make a product that lets you see the lane oil :D
http://www.militaryinfrared.com/images/PVS-15_night-vision-goggles-dual-tube.jpg
That ball is insane. Imagine if like sensed when the pattern was done and lit up when it hit the end of the pattern. That way u know how long it is.

[ravenhammer]

The USBC knows that every house can't afford the proper equipment to lay some of these patterns down.As long as they make a "reasonable effort" the USBC will turn a blind eye to the actual pattern.Then I asked how many houses were going to try and cheat on this league by laying some crappy pattern down and pushing it off on YOU that it's the real deal.
How much is the Kegal machine they use on tour? How many houses can touch that?
I don't think most houses are trying to "cheat on this league by laying some crappy pattern down and pushing it off on YOU that it's the real deal."
When you start averaging 230 on whatever "sport" or "PBA Experience" league than start you complaining.

[Rowdy]

Can you assholes even READ? I said DON'T shoot the messenger! And I ALSO said that this person doesn't want to lose their job? WHY would this person lie to me? Like I said in the post,they ARE concerned about what is going on. If you're just gonna sit there and mock the way the post was written or any other such crap,then you're part of the problem.Not part of the solution.Go play the bowling game on your Wii and let those of us who want to save this deal have a meaningful dialoge.I'm goddamn sick and tired of some of you taking parts out of context and whing your ass off about it. Either get behind the movement to fix this mess,or get out of the way of those of us that care about bowling.ALL kinds of bowling.As i have previously said,it doesn't matter to me what oil pattern is laid down or what you call the league.Just roll and see what happens.But I would like to see EVERYBODY get the same treatment from house to house.Is this TOO much to ask for? Apparently it is from the way some of you are behaving.You want yours and the hell with everyone else.Sorry,that attitude ain't gonna cut it anymore.The post was intended to inform YOU what was being thought by the higher-ups and what THEY were thinking about doing about it.If you don't like what you read,COMPLAIN TO THE USBC,not me! Or are you too scared to call them up and tell them who you are?I've had dicussions with at least 25 different people at the USBC on a number of different topics.They are very nice people who want to HELP.They will not bite your head off.Unless you start screaming at them.Please don't do that.As long as you have a valid question or comment,they will not stop untill you are totally satisfied that your question has been answered or your opinion has reached the right person.But,they are not mind readers!If YOU don't tell 'em whats going on,how are they supposed to do anything about it.As for me ratting out the house,I will tell you to ask Quest what a dump this place is.He's seen it with his own two eyes and has his own opinion about it.I agonized for days over that decision to call the USBC and do what I did.Why did I do it?The people who bowl there I consider freinds,and they deserve better than what they're getting right now.Which is screwed!That's why I called and ratted the house out.No more.no less.Notice I only got on the house,not on some of the balls that are thrown there.Some of them are close to science fiction.Weight being waaay off,stuff applied to the ball for more hook,stuff like that.I let that dog lay for now.I belive the people who bowl there will take care of that on their own.As it should be.Now,you wanna keep on crying and whining,or do you want to get with some of us and help?Your reply will tell the tale.

[bigsexyhammer]

AHEM...let me quote myself...

Hit enter buddy...hit enter.;)

Dude, you have a lot of good information in your posts...some crap, but hey, don't we all. But for the love of god, take a breath and hit enter and the space bar every once in a while so we can actually read it...:p

[BradM]

Ok, I tried to re-read the original post. What are you telling us?

There are variances allowed for oil patterns.

They are going to start cracking down on balls that are drilled to cheat.

Is this what you are saying? Is there anything else that I'm missing?
There has to be variances allowed for oil patterns. That's just how it is. Not every machine is going to perform flawlessly.

It's always been wrong to cheat using illegal balls.

Help me understand what the big deal is regarding your post.

[Rowdy]

You have a problem with the FORMAT but not the message.At least I can spell.Some of the post's on here I can't even figure out what they're trying to say.If all you have to worry about is someone hitting the Space bar,life must be pretty good where you're at.Lucky you.

[Executioner]

This thing with the cracking down on bad balls I think is a decent idea but myself not know much I dont know if my balls are legal or not. I put my trust im my driller that he will make them legal. But it may or may not be legal. But im no expert on the drilling aspect of what makes a ball legal or what to look for hense why i dont drill balls :(.


Executioner

[bigsexyhammer]

You have a problem with the FORMAT but not the message.At least I can spell.Some of the post's on here I can't even figure out what they're trying to say.If all you have to worry about is someone hitting the Space bar,life must be pretty good where you're at.Lucky you.

Life is pretty good indeed...:D

And I am glad that you can spell, because I sure as hell know what you are saying about that. I swear I want to strangle someone when I read the "ur a moron, u thnk i shud by this ball, idk dood lawlz" crap. Damn texting generation. I can't wait to see their resumes one day...

Interviewer for potential job: So what do you think you can offer our company?

Moron: I can txt 5 werds a min...

Interviewer for potential job: That's not really something we are looking for.

Moron: Dood, wtf, I'm sirius, idk whut u want me 2 say

:rolleyes:

[Young300]

Can everyone just chill? Holy shit.

It's understandable to see what USBC is doing. And, yes the variances are all needed because of the oiling machine or the type of lane they are placing the pattern on. The pattern needs to be modified to fit the lane and some places will go to insurmountable lengths to get it perfect.

The brand new oiling machines can cost up to a Corvette. Sad to say, but most houses don't have the funds to pay for a brand new Corvette every three years.

They really shouldn't have to crack down on bowling balls, as we all know, cheating is stupid, and cheating and winning is probably the most retarded thing that could happen, especially if you play the game on the straight and narrow.

I personally know USBC board members that are on the National level, and they are all up there to do what is best for the game and help, us, bowlers. I may not agree with where they put some tournaments or who they let run them, but I don't throw that at them to put it on their minds. They have enough as it is.

That's the fact, and we need to live with it. Our game is ever-changing, so, USBC needs to continually modify the rules and standards.

And if you really think that you have some great ideas that could totally fix whatever mess there is, then I suggest you apply to be a USBC board member and try to sway the majority the way you think it should be.

ifyouarehavingthatmuchtroublereadingRowdy'spoststh enre-readitslowerandtakethetimetodoit.

Any more questions that people can bitch, piss and moan about, call USBC and ask them.

*steps down off of soap box*

[Young300]

Interviewer for potential job: So what do you think you can offer our company?

Moron: I can text 5 werds a min...

Interviewer for potential job: That's not really something we are looking for.

Moron: Dood, wtf, I'm sirius, idk whut u want me 2 say

:rolleyes:

Hahahahaha! How long and how much concentration on your part did it take for you to type that?

[bigsexyhammer]

Hahahahaha! How long and how much concentration on your part did it take for you to type that?

:D

Admittedly a couple minutes, but not too long, because I seriously think things like that when I read some posts on boards like these, and then even more so when I meet the losers in real life.

[BradM]

:D

Admittedly a couple minutes, but not too long, because I seriously think things like that when I read some posts on boards like these, and then even more so when I meet the losers in real life.


ur teh suk.

















:D

[Thepainscoming]

:D

Admittedly a couple minutes, but not too long, because I seriously think things like that when I read some posts on boards like these, and then even more so when I meet the losers in real life.
I text that way and that fast. But at least i know with u oldsters, i spell my words out all the way:D

jk

[Rowdy]

The deal is that some houses are going to lay down patterns that in no way will be what they are claiming to be.Not a variance.A totally bogus pattern.And as far as the tape goes,those are up to the house to let you see.They don't HAVE to do it.Until the USBC shows up and does one of their own.Get it?They stick the bowler with a bogus pattern thats favorable to higher scores.The scores go in to the USBC who then may or may not go to the lane and run a tape of their own.The original pattern is long gone.The USBC shows up and wants to see the tape.The lane says we were rushed that nite,didn't do one.Well as far as the USBC is concerned no big deal.We think you're an honest guy and will give you a pass on this one.They may or may not come back the next time that league bowls.So the house waits untill the last possible minute to start laying down the pattern for that nite.No USBC in sight?Move the pattern just a little towards the legal side.Usbc there?Put the pattern at the edge of being legal towards the bowler and quietly tell everyone to shut up about the oil tonight.I've seen it done,live and in color.The ball thing was just for your info.So you could be on the lookout for funny balls,that's all.There was a guy who won a tourney around here with over an 800 series.Unfortunatly the ball suffered a problem a week later and had to be replaced.The exact same ball is ordered and when the original ball is weighed it's found to be so far out of spec it's nowhere near funny.The driller,who is a man of integrity,gave the bowler his UNDRILLED ball,his original ball and told him to beat it and never set foot in their house again.But he gave the illeagal ball back AFTER he made a video of the weighing of the ball!This was sent to the USBC who has pulled all this guys scores for the season,but he keeps the cash and awards.So those who are throwing funny balls can either make the ball legal or get ready to be weighed before they get the trophy and the check.I hope this clears some of it up for you.

[Rowdy]

Executioner-If you don't know if your bowling balls are legal or not,get 'em weighed! Most pro shops will do it for free.Use one other than the one who drilled the ball.The ball must be of legal weight in 6 axies.It is 6,right? I might have that number wrong,Quest will tell me soon enough if I got it wrong!Only takes a few minutes to properly weigh a ball.If it's legal all is well and good.If not,don't worry usually an X hole will fix the problem.

[BradM]

I'm telling you, the variances are in place for a reason and most houses are not out to cheat the USBC. These "bogus" patterns would have to be pretty out of wack for it to be considered illegal by the USBC by their own definitions.

I think you're panic and worry is for nothing.

Pushing for stricter regulation of lane conditions can really put a bind on a bowler more than the house that's laying the pattern. How would you like to bowl an 800 series and have it revoked because the pattern was off by a board and was 2 feet longer than it should have been. You didn't have anything to do with that. You thought it was all on the up and up. I think you'd change your tune pretty quick.

[Rowdy]

Brad-I'm not in a panic about anything.But when the USBC tells me that over 200 houses will NOT be giving the bowlers what they paid for,doesn't that make you worry for those guys some? And a pattern off by a board and two feet longer would still be a LEGAL pattern according to the USBC. So no worry there.So there's no tune to change.Maybe I just care about bowling too much.All I want is an even playing field across the board for everyone.Is that too much to ask for?It would seem from all the replies I've seen that it is.I have gone to great lenghts to make sure that every ball I own is legal.Is it wrong to expect the same out of others?I don't belive it is.

[BradM]

I want everything to be fair too but, there is nothing we can personally do about a house that is going to lay down a pattern that isn't legal. We can't bring our own machines in to tape the lane. The responsiblity lies with the sanctioning body to insure the fact that the lanes are within their specs.

How do we as bowlers change that?

[BubbaRay]

Rowdy,

Excuse me but I don't appreciate you calling me or anyone on here an asshole. There is no need for that . If you don't like what I have to say I'm outta here . No one was shooting the messenger.just opinions. Lighten up Rowdy.
\
I think an apology is in order.

You know , NOT once did I ever call anyone here a name . I am here to help people and offer advice and input on the sport. Just because I have been on tour I don't claim to know everything. So let's stop the bulls***t and do what we are here for.

Waiting for an apology

[BradM]

Rowdy,

Excuse me but I don't appreciate you calling me or anyone on here an asshole. There is no need for that . If you don't like what I have to say I'm outta here . No one was shooting the messenger.just opinions. Lighten up Rowdy.
\
I think an apology is in order.


Don't you up and leave because of that! I like you and appreciate your posts. If you leave, the terrorists win.

[can-ham]

By using Hammers' and J&A Fusion's service, you agree that you will not post any of the following material in bulletin boards, or other forums:

* Any communication that is intended to harass, belittle, humiliate, threaten or cause embarrassment to a fellow member.
* Material that contains vulgar, obscene or indecent language or images.
...

I believe swearing and calling people ars-h*les fall into this category...

[BigDog]

Don't you up and leave because of that! I like you and appreciate your posts. If you leave, the terrorists win.

I appreciate them also - *especially* from someone who used to be on tour. Please don't leave. Thanks.

[Rowdy]

Bubba-you are right and I apoligize to anyone offened.Heat of the moment deal.Again,I'm sorry about that.

[BubbaRay]

Thank you Sir

[BigDog]

I believe swearing and calling people ars-h*les fall into this category...

It does. It also proves the intelligence of who said it. I'm NOT perfect, but I try to keep my mouth in check (especially with a 2-year old around).

[JoshWithrow]

Some people are just WWAAAYYYY out of line... ALOT. Anyway...

What is it that you expect these people to do? They said that they'll be investigating suspected problems and acting. What more do you want them to do? You act like you have a problem with their variances. What exactly is it you want these houses to do? Personally I have no problem with any of the information laid out in front of us. They know about these places and will be doing what they can do stop them OR not stand behind them. What else is there to do?

[Rowdy]

Big Dog-I aplogized.End of that.
Brad-you have the diagram of the real pattern,right?If you see something out of whack call it in.The USBC is awaiting your call.
Josh-we just discussed this in your PM.But like I said to Brad,you should KNOW when something ain't right,ask to see the tape for that night?Maybe that would get the house owner on the straight and narrow.Someone put up a website link on how to read the tapes.I guess we all should learn how to read them and make sure we are getting what we're paying for.The informed consumer thing.If 20 or so bowlers demand to see a tape and it's WAAAY off,pull out your cell phone and start making calls.And DON'T bowl on those lanes!Wonder how fast the lanes would get redressed after that.Hey,I'm just one guy trying to make sure that everything is fair no matter where you roll at.I do need some help with this.

[ravenhammer]

Rowdy,

Excuse me but I don't appreciate you calling me or anyone on here an asshole. There is no need for that . No one was shooting the messenger.just opinions.
I think an apology is in order.


I second that whole-heartedly!
The deal is that some houses are going to lay down patterns that in no way will be what they are claiming to be.Not a variance.A totally bogus pattern.
The solution is simple Don't Bowl There!
They stick the bowler with a bogus pattern thats favorable to higher scores.
I think your worried about someone shooting higher scores than you on whatever conditions.
I bet you also drive the speed limit in the passing lane as well.

[slap]

The deal is that some houses are going to lay down patterns that in no way will be what they are claiming to be.Not a variance.A totally bogus pattern.And as far as the tape goes,those are up to the house to let you see.They don't HAVE to do it.Until the USBC shows up and does one of their own.Get it?They stick the bowler with a bogus pattern thats favorable to higher scores.The scores go in to the USBC who then may or may not go to the lane and run a tape of their own.The original pattern is long gone.The USBC shows up and wants to see the tape.The lane says we were rushed that nite,didn't do one.Well as far as the USBC is concerned no big deal.We think you're an honest guy and will give you a pass on this one.They may or may not come back the next time that league bowls.So the house waits untill the last possible minute to start laying down the pattern for that nite.No USBC in sight?Move the pattern just a little towards the legal side.Usbc there?Put the pattern at the edge of being legal towards the bowler and quietly tell everyone to shut up about the oil tonight.I've seen it done,live and in color.The ball thing was just for your info.So you could be on the lookout for funny balls,that's all.There was a guy who won a tourney around here with over an 800 series.Unfortunatly the ball suffered a problem a week later and had to be replaced.The exact same ball is ordered and when the original ball is weighed it's found to be so far out of spec it's nowhere near funny.The driller,who is a man of integrity,gave the bowler his UNDRILLED ball,his original ball and told him to beat it and never set foot in their house again.But he gave the illeagal ball back AFTER he made a video of the weighing of the ball!This was sent to the USBC who has pulled all this guys scores for the season,but he keeps the cash and awards.So those who are throwing funny balls can either make the ball legal or get ready to be weighed before they get the trophy and the check.I hope this clears some of it up for you.

This is a situation where you begin to file complaints and grievances with your local association. Or better yet, take your business to a more honest center. A bad owner is a bad owner. I highly doubt the introduction of sport bowling turned an honest owner into type of person you're describing. If that's the case Darth Vader needs to be the new spokesmen for PBA Experience.

As far as balls, none of the small tournaments around here weight equipment at check in.


Brad-I'm not in a panic about anything.But when the USBC tells me that over 200 houses will NOT be giving the bowlers what they paid for,doesn't that make you worry for those guys some? And a pattern off by a board and two feet longer would still be a LEGAL pattern according to the USBC. So no worry there.So there's no tune to change.Maybe I just care about bowling too much.All I want is an even playing field across the board for everyone.Is that too much to ask for?It would seem from all the replies I've seen that it is.I have gone to great lenghts to make sure that every ball I own is legal.Is it wrong to expect the same out of others?I don't belive it is.

So ~200 out of the ~5500 bowling centers in the country. That's about roughly 3.6% It would be great if all centers were operated properly but that's not the case. By the numbers your source provided you with, this doesn't sound like a major problem.

You think current house shot system is an even playing field? The only quantitative regulation as it stands now is there must be at least 3 units on oil on the lane. That means the lane man can make the lanes really hard or super easy. How is that even?

A major component of the sport program is to form more uniform patterns. It started with 2:1 oil ratio programs (not a huge success) and has evolved into the PBA Experience.

[Tinkerbell]

OK every one I understand what all of you are trying to say.Now pay attention because i AM ONLY GONNA TELL THIS ONCE:Last week in a pro shop(where they had the Faball)I was told what happens when other bowlers don't pay attention to what is going on. It seems there was a local bowler entering all the tournaments not to long ago and he was winning them all and taking all the prize money. Well they held a tournament at this alley and of course he entered. One day when he was practicing for the tournament he missed the shot, and the ball went in the channel. When it came back the ball had a chunk missing. The owners at the alley said that "they would be more than happy to replace it". So he left his ball in the shop when the new one came to be drilled. The gentlemen that drilled the balls got to looking at this ball that they were replacing, and realised it didn't look right. So he took it over to the scale and weighed it. Low and Behold the ball was very ILLEGAL, but nobody had thought to check because he seemed like such an honest fellow and always put up big scores. He even had a sanctioned 800 series on this ball. The Driller told him he would not report him but that he did not want to find out that he was bowling locally every again.
Now some of you might say well we will take his 800. But really which one of you would give it up. Now this is why you need to look around at your lanes and try to be aware of the things going on or, someday some one is gonna walk away with your money by cheating. And no one will be the wiser about it. Nobody wants to be a stool pigeon. And on the same note no one likes to look dumb. So look around you at the house and the people you don't know and just be aware.

[JoshWithrow]

I bet you also drive the speed limit in the passing lane as well.

lol that's funny. Not because it's accusing Rowdy of being that type of person, but because I know people like that... they kind of people that sit upon a high horse and feel that, in their own little head, they are in some position to make people do what THEY feel that these people should be doing and crusade against the world in their efforts to have a cause, any cause, just justify their actions/intentions to themselves.

Now anyway... the whole point of a house shot is that it ISN'T so governed. It gives the HOUSE leeway to the way they want to operate the lanes. Statistics show that the more a house scores the more money it makes. Running a center isn't about morales... it's about business. And if the house isn't making money then they aren't going to be open long, are they? There are always multiple sides to the coin.

In any event, I have no PROBLEM with house shots EXCEPT that I think a house shot shouldn't guide a ball to the pocket, but then they face the same problem that's discussed above.

But who knows... maybe somebody should approach the house about taping. I'll state pretty confidently that my house doesn't tape for their house shots... but I know damn well they do for the PBAEx league. Why/How? Because I've seen them laying down patterns. The guy that oils at my house runs the machine down ONE lane, tapes it, make an adjustment if necessary (which has never been the case... they bought a new machine just for the PBAEx leagues and it gets its oiling programs from somewhere on the internet), you know, in case something's wrong, and only moves on once the tape reads correctly. And then, as is required, they send the tape data into USBC HQ.

But as to a house shot... In no way does a house shot TYPICALLY need to be taped. There's so much room as to what they can do that they'd have to be doing something really dumb to not be in compliance. Actually, to be quite honest, I'm not interested in seeing a tape for a THS at my house. It'd be nice to know the specifics on the pattern that's down but I've become pretty good at reading the lane conditions and have adjusted well to them.

So anywho... all the fuss for a THS? My opinion is NO. But the PBAEx league? Hell yes, but the league is REQUIRED to send those results in. To any other sport league? I think the USBC should come up with an array of "acceptable patterns" with allowable variances and then leave it up to the house about how things are displayed. Even for that it'd be nice to get a tape reading, but again, those aren't governed so closely.

[JoshWithrow]

OK every one I understand what all of you are trying to say.Now pay attention because i AM ONLY GONNA TELL THIS ONCE:Last week in a pro shop(where they had the Faball)I was told what happens when other bowlers don't pay attention to what is going on. It seems there was a local bowler entering all the tournaments not to long ago and he was winning them all and taking all the prize money. Well they held a tournament at this alley and of course he entered. One day when he was practicing for the tournament he missed the shot, and the ball went in the channel. When it came back the ball had a chunk missing. The owners at the alley said that "they would be more than happy to replace it". So he left his ball in the shop when the new one came to be drilled. The gentlemen that drilled the balls got to looking at this ball that they were replacing, and realised it didn't look right. So he took it over to the scale and weighed it. Low and Behold the ball was very ILLEGAL, but nobody had thought to check because he seemed like such an honest fellow and always put up big scores. He even had a sanctioned 800 series on this ball. The Driller told him he would not report him but that he did not want to find out that he was bowling locally every again.
Now some of you might say well we will take his 800. But really which one of you would give it up. Now this is why you need to look around at your lanes and try to be aware of the things going on or, someday some one is gonna walk away with your money by cheating. And no one will be the wiser about it. Nobody wants to be a stool pigeon. And on the same note no one likes to look dumb. So look around you at the house and the people you don't know and just be aware.

Regardless he must still be a good bowler. I've seen a pro shop guy intentionally drill a ball UPSIDE DOWN just to prove that it's more about the bowler than the ball. He rolled a 3 game 700 series with this ball one hour after drilling it. Yes, it was practice conditions, but still. And why did he do this? Because he was telling me a story about how he accidentally drilled a MB ball upside down right after they were introduced to the game.

A customer came in, bought the ball, asked for it to be drilled before league to which he obliged. He realized AFTER drilling this ball and the customer leaving that it was drilled upside down and, regardless of anybody's opinion on this, didn't go to bother the guy during league.

He went on to tell me how after league was finished he saw this guy marching towards the proshop as if he were on a mission. He went to his rack, pulled a ball off the shelf (same ball, undrilled) and was going to apologize to the guy and tell him that he'd drill the ball correctly at no cost whatsoever. Instead he ended up not having to do this. Before the pro shop owner could say anything the bowler came in exclaiming how much he loved the ball, the way it moved, and how well it rolled for him. He rolled his first 700 series that night with that very ball.

The pro shop guy then proceeded to tell him about his ball and the guy insisted that he wanted the ball that had been given to him. To this day he says he's never had a ball roll as well for him and the way that he throws the ball.

The ball was within the appropriate hemispherical weights, just drilled upside down (pro shop guy was confused and used the MB of the ball as the pin as he thought, at first, that the ball was intended to be measured/drilled that way).

Just goes to show you... it's more about the bowler than the ball. Not saying that anybody should intentionally cheat, but having an out of spec ball doesn't necessarily give you an advantage.

[Tinkerbell]

Your right Josh.But I know For a Fact(and have double checked this).The driller used to drill for the PBA-did all the pros balls at tourn).Maybe you heard of him. Fred Trickey.UIf not maybe I am wrong.But the weight on the ball was to far to one side to fix.My point was that people can and will cheat if enough money is involved. Also to be able to say you have a snactioned score and go around bragging about it. Most people know that there are bowlers and alleys out there that don't care about the truth they just see the dollar signs.:)

[Tinkerbell]

Man I gotta get the nails cut and work on the spelling.Sorry:o

[JoshWithrow]

Your right Josh.But I know For a Fact(and have double checked this).The driller used to drill for the PBA-did all the pros balls at tourn).Maybe you heard of him. Fred Trickey.UIf not maybe I am wrong.But the weight on the ball was to far to one side to fix.My point was that people can and will cheat if enough money is involved. Also to be able to say you have a snactioned score and go around bragging about it. Most people know that there are bowlers and alleys out there that don't care about the truth they just see the dollar signs.:)

I understand and agree with you wholeheartedly. He was using this to an unfair advantage. I was just backing up the fact that no ball drilled any particular was makes that ball magical ;) That's all. But you are 100% correct and I agree with you all 100 percents ;)

[Tinkerbell]

Which one do you agree on.That I gotta cut my nails down some and learn to spell.Or the post.LOL:D

[JoshWithrow]

Which one do you agree on.That I gotta cut my nails down some and learn to spell.Or the post.LOL:D

;) The bowling. The other speaks for itself /poke poke

[Tinkerbell]

Yeah I know. But you guys need to try to type and make your nails look sexy.OOOHHHH:D

[slap]

But as to a house shot... In no way does a house shot TYPICALLY need to be taped. There's so much room as to what they can do that they'd have to be doing something really dumb to not be in compliance. Actually, to be quite honest, I'm not interested in seeing a tape for a THS at my house. It'd be nice to know the specifics on the pattern that's down but I've become pretty good at reading the lane conditions and have adjusted well to them.


At my main center they generally tape the house patten once a week and post the graph. I agree they don't have to but they do....Now if they would stop allowing open bowling before league life would be great.

[JoshWithrow]

Now if they would stop allowing open bowling before league life would be great.

I heard that. I've formed a nice big complaint in the form of a very long letter with a signed petition of names/contact info/league name of a BUNCH of people who bowl winter leagues there. This letter is so long it's sure to make your eyes bleed. Maybe I should remove all line breaks and punctuation. In fact, while I'm at it, let me make some spelling and grammatical errors, too. That should convince them, huh?

[grayfin68]

I'm sure there are some facts in there but I'm not buying the whole story either.

Sport leagues have strict lane taping requirements. Again, I've heard this is a major hassle for the centers but it ends any debate about the shot. I don't see how this is an issue.

Of course there is variance in the patterns. The type of lane, condition of said lane, the type of machine, the brand of oil etc etc etc all factor in. Also it's up to the center to decide the volume of oil, the sport regulations only specify a ratio range. I've played the shark in two houses this summer and they shot was different. Similar but not exactly the same. Even the touring pro comment that the pattern do not play the same from house to house.

Will sport leagues last? Only time will tell on that one...

Slap, the USBC also requires a person from the league to verify the tapes after the house puts the oil down. I'm not worried about it at my house anyway, our league averages are around 30 pins below normal anyway.

I also know the lane manager and he is a serious bowler who would never make things easier than they're supposed to be.

[Thepainscoming]

Slap, the USBC also requires a person from the league to verify the tapes after the house puts the oil down. I'm not worried about it at my house anyway, our league averages are around 30 pins below normal anyway.

I also know the lane manager and he is a serious bowler who would never make things easier than they're supposed to be.Same thing with skate shops. The best ones are ones that are owned by actual skaters or bowlers.

[dw800seeker]

I'm not worried about it at my house anyway, our league averages are around 30 pins below normal anyway.


GREAT POINT. In my PBA Experience league of pretty much 48 bowlers who used to average 190 or higher (almost all over 200) only one averages over 200 right now. Just about everyone is 25+ pins under book average.

My question:

Once we see each PBA experience pattern 20+ times each will our averages go back above 200?

Re: people winning tournaments with illegal balls. At Nationals all the balls were exaimined/weighed before we bowled with them. That is probably a good idea for all tournaments.

[Thepainscoming]

Re: people winning tournaments with illegal balls. At Nationals all the balls were exaimined/weighed before we bowled with them. That is probably a good idea for all tournaments. Yeah i think every tournament to be certified must have a ball weigh in before. And u can only use those balls that u have had weighed in and have been okayed.

[TenPinSniper]

Even the experts lane guys the PBA has screw up the shot from time to time... alot of time they're trying to adjust a pattern for lanes, because of the condition of the lanes.

[Thepainscoming]

Even the experts lane guys the PBA has screw up the shot from time to time... alot of time they're trying to adjust a pattern for lanes, because of the condition of the lanes. Yea like the older lanes they might put more volumes of oil on it or put more oil on the gutters if their in bad condition.

[Rowdy]

Raven-If you're gonna chime in with your two cents worth,would you PLEASE read the WHOLE thread before you go off like that.First,way before your post,I had ALREADY apologized to Bubba.Second,you made the SAME point I did.I said if someone didn't like the lane conditions not to bowl there.Again point was made before you came along.Third-I don't worry about what anyone else is shooting if it's a singles league.If you should score higher than me,I have ALWAYS been a good sport and congradulated the other bowler.I do not expect to win every game.That would be unrealistic.Since I'm sure you've NEVER seen me bowl to make an assumption about me like that is totally unfair.Fourth-As far as driving slow in the passing lane,now I KNOW you don't know me at all.I was a long haul trucker for over 30 years,and I've NEVER been accused of that!You were probably the guy right behind my rig,trying not to get caught by the law.

[TenPinSniper]

Gezz Rowdy... it give'em break.... this thread is long. Who knows might have read the thread and still decided to post.

[JoshWithrow]

Once again... unnecessary drama invades the HHF's...

[ravenhammer]

My post actualy took a couple of hours to finish. While I was posting the Fed-Ex guy came with parts for my motorhome and I started working on it right away then came back and saw my reply was still there and hit the submit button. But thankyou for the apology.
As far as the fastlane comment that was a generality and if I was behind your truck it was because I was trying out my electro-magnent I have on the front of my car to save gas;) . It is easy to get 100 MPG when the car is in neutral at 65:eek:

[JoshWithrow]

That idea is hawt n seksy... I'm going to have to look into that...

[Thepainscoming]

My post actualy took a couple of hours to finish. While I was posting the Fed-Ex guy came with parts for my motorhome and I started working on it right away then came back and saw my reply was still there and hit the submit button. But thankyou for the apology.
As far as the fastlane comment that was a generality and if I was behind your truck it was because I was trying out my electro-magnent I have on the front of my car to save gas;) . It is easy to get 100 MPG when the car is in neutral at 65:eek:
That is actually a good idea. I wish somebody would actually try it.

[Speedyhammer]

Dang ifn this here aint one long posts. Seems like somes of yall gots some thin skin here. Dont run up hind the big trucks tho. My pappy is a rig driver and hed just lay down on the trailer breaks and muss up yer whole day! The feller what started this thing was makin sum good secnse about what he was talkin bout. Crooked up houses aint cool atall. What yall mad at hims bout? Just nosy is all. New here tryin to get the lay of the land.

[can-ham]

Dang ifn this here aint one long posts. Seems like somes of yall gots some thin skin here. Dont run up hind the big trucks tho. My pappy is a rig driver and hed just lay down on the trailer breaks and muss up yer whole day! The feller what started this thing was makin sum good secnse about what he was talkin bout. Crooked up houses aint cool atall. What yall mad at hims bout? Just nosy is all. New here tryin to get the lay of the land.

Hey Rowdy love the new login name :D

http://www.vilewatch.com/founder/images/smythe_disguise.jpg

[Dolsmi]

WTF is this all about!
That is the hardest thing I have ever tried to read.

[EIGHTBALL033]

WTF is this all about!
That is the hardest thing I have ever tried to read.

PUFF PUFF PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1:eek:

[TenPinSniper]

Hey Rowdy love the new login name :D

http://www.vilewatch.com/founder/images/smythe_disguise.jpg

My Thoughts exactly... atleast he was creative enough not to use Rowdy Jr :eek: ... Yep the use of the space bar.. classic. Was thinking he did not have one on his keyboard, now we know!:p