Question about a new ball

[Bearbos]

Hello everyone... I am new to the forum and relatively new to bowling. I bought my first ball back in June and have been trying to figure out some things. I went from straight bowling and finally got a hook on it. I was doing pretty good, I broke my old record of 174 and replaced it with my new record of 215. So I was doing pretty good, was working on consistency and trying to get my form down. When a couple of guys I know invited me to go bowl with them before their league game, so I went. Well the lanes were dry and I threw my ball and it felt good but it broke early, and I thought maybe I just threw it wrong and did it again. That is when I asked the other guys if it was just me or was the lanes really dry, and they said it is usually like that when they bowl for the league. So now that I have gotten the background out of the way time for the question.... I want to be able to keep throwing the same on the dryer lanes and have my ball go the same way the BW does on the normal lanes.... So I guess I need a ball that will go further on the Dry lanes before it breaks but still break the same as My BW... Can anyone give some suggestions? much appreciated.

[BigDog]

There's a lot that we can suggest that you do.

Don't buy a new ball (quite) yet.

Tell us more about your style (where you start, where your intended target is), What adjustments you've made (moving your feet left, right, front or back), and any changes to your target (left or right).

Did you buy your BW new or used, and it still in its OOB (Out Of the Box) condition?

What have you tried so far?

[Sin City Hammer]

Dry lanes are a bitch for for a black widow, since it's more of a med.-heavy oil ball. So if the lanes are dry, I'd suggest using a vibe.

Since you are throwing a hook (and depending on your style and line you throw to) you may have to switch your line a bit more inward because of the dry lanes on the outside.

But, without knowing stuff like where you line up/what line do you typically throw/ect. it would be just speculation and not a answer to better help you.

[can-ham]

Make sure you get you feet moving before you reach for the wallet.

Most people do have a few balls in their arsenal for deferent conditions, but you should be able to find a line for your BW on most conditions. Unless your standing over the left gutter and pitching it over 25 out to 5 and it's still going left...

[EIGHTBALL033]

FOR TIPS,http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip27.htm :cool:

[Bearbos]

Ok lets me see if I can sound like I know what I am talking about... I normally line up with my right foot on the center board(covering the big dot) on the set of dots closest to the lane. I aim for the second arrow from the right(usually play just to the left of the arrow though). Foot movement .... usually I move my feet three boards per pin.... so let me see if I can describe this.... if I want to hit the three pin I move left three boards likewise if I want to hit the two pin I move right three boards...(usually to pick up spares and such) on the dry lane I tried moving over 3 all the way up to 15 boards to the left and I was getting where I could get close to a brooklyn. Haven't really messed with where I am aiming... try to keep it in the same spot I guess. Ok ball condition, well I bought it brand-new OOB, within 24 hours the bowling alley's ball return had put two gouges in the ball and some scratched, about a week ago (at another alley) it got caught it the call return again and put a bunch of scratches on it in a star-burst pattern on the side. Haven't got it fixed yet. Any other questions I would be happy to answer them, I thank you guy greatly. like I said I am still new to bowling and am still trying to find my way and all advice is appreciated. Thank you very much.

[Sin City Hammer]

Have you tried cleaning the ball after every time you use it?

Because both the black widow and black widow pearl are high maintaince balls that should be cleaned after you are done using them. So that might help you a little bit.

[EIGHTBALL033]

POST ABOVE IS GREAT SITE FOR TIPS,ALSO IF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO COACH OR SOMEONE IN PRO SHOP TO HELP YOU,WOULD BE WORTH IT,ALSO BOWLING THIS MONTH MAGAZINE IS WORTH SUBSCRIBING FOR,IF YOUR REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT GETTING BETTER,LESSONS IS MONEY WELL SPENT:cool:

[dbt302]

Get a 2000 abralon pad and get the OOB finish off the ball. The shiny cover makes the ball eratic. By getting the shine off, it will make the ball hook the same on a more consistant basis. Use the pad on the ball each time after using it. Make sure the ball is damp when doing this. You don't have to rub it hard. Just a nice smooth stroke should keep the ball fresh. wipe it down with rubbing alcohol to get the surface oil off before packing the ball up and heading home. Since most league players play outside, try moving your feet and spot further inside. When adjusting, always move the feet and the spot. If you move the feet 2 boards, move the spot the same number of boards in the same direction.

[TenPinSniper]

Get a 2000 abralon pad and get the OOB finish off the ball. The shiny cover makes the ball eratic. By getting the shine off, it will make the ball hook the same on a more consistant basis. Use the pad on the ball each time after using it. Make sure the ball is damp when doing this. You don't have to rub it hard. Just a nice smooth stroke should keep the ball fresh. wipe it down with rubbing alcohol to get the surface oil off before packing the ball up and heading home. Since most league players play outside, try moving your feet and spot further inside. When adjusting, always move the feet and the spot. If you move the feet 2 boards, move the spot the same number of boards in the same direction.

Please don't use Rubbing Alcohol, except to clean your inserts. You need something formulated to clean.

Ebonite/Track/PowerHouse Products are designed to clean bowling balls.
Energizer
Power Wash
Ball Cleaner

There are several other products that work well also.

Home based cleaners:
Some people use 409, Simple Green 1:1 with water, Windex.... some of these are good probably okay, others not so good.

Also never use Acetone. That's never ever under any circumstance.

[Sparehater]

Get a 2000 abralon pad and get the OOB finish off the ball. The shiny cover makes the ball eratic. By getting the shine off, it will make the ball hook the same on a more consistant basis. Use the pad on the ball each time after using it. Make sure the ball is damp when doing this. You don't have to rub it hard. Just a nice smooth stroke should keep the ball fresh. wipe it down with rubbing alcohol to get the surface oil off before packing the ball up and heading home. Since most league players play outside, try moving your feet and spot further inside. When adjusting, always move the feet and the spot. If you move the feet 2 boards, move the spot the same number of boards in the same direction.
The black widow doesn't come polished, i think it comes at 4000 abralon only.

[Sin City Hammer]

The black widow doesn't come polished, i think it comes at 4000 abralon only.

Yep. it's 4000 abralon.

[Sparehater]

Yep. it's 4000 abralon. Ok i thought so. O and windex ruins a bowling ball. You only use windex to clean ur spare ball unless u want a new 200 dollar spare ball.

[TenPinSniper]

The black widow doesn't come polished, i think it comes at 4000 abralon only.

Believe, what was meant by the shine, is build-up of lane conditioner.

[Sparehater]

Believe, what was meant by the shine, is build-up of lane conditioner.
O ok, so the ball just got polished by the lane oil, just by use, o ok now i get it.

[Rowdy]

Buy A Black Widow Pearl!!!

[Rowdy]

And WHO is the dolt that keeps saying to take a widow down to 2000? What,you can't throw it OOB and score? Everytime one of these threads comes up,some clown shouts out to "Take it to 2000". Why? Both Widows work just fine at 4000. Did you ever stop to think that the problem is YOU? The ball is "spotty?" WTF? Thats called lane oil,wipe down the ball,numbnuts. Actually I do know why you want to take the balls down to 2000. It's because you can't put enough revs on it to make it hook! Instead of screwing up perfectly good Widows,go and get some lessons. And PLEASE KEEP USING ALCOHOL TO CLEAN YOUR BALL!!!! Go ahead,use a gallon a day per ball.

[Bearbos]

Thank you all for your information I will look into all of it :D I am so glad I found this forum. When I get back home I will definitely look into some lessons. (someone else suggested lessons because I have this problem with my thumb being really sore and irritated at the base to the point I can't bowl) Thank you all again ... Very very much. :) :D

[Rowdy]

dbt302-What the hell are you talking about? Move your feet AND the spot? WHAT?? I don't think so,unless you just want to hook in front of the rack. You ONLY move your feet,not the spot. Alcohol on a widow? Not unless you want your butt kicked when I see you do it. 2000 abralon? Go learn to throw a hook. And If you even OWN a Widow,you would know that you always start out on the LEFT side of the approach,so who cares about guys outside on the right? At least give some poor guy the correct info before he ruins a good bowling ball. Chump.

[TenPinSniper]

Wow, Rowdy how was your day???

Surface alterations are very valid. The reason I know is because my house shot is probably not like yours... Did Ebonite design the balls to work on ever possible lane condition from the factory? HELL NO. That would be impossible.

Plus, do we all bowl alike. Yes there are adjustments that can be made, but we all have different ball speeds, revs, axis tilt and axis rotation.

Some of us play on shorter patterns, some longer, some of us play on light oil, medium oil, heavy oil and various patterns in between. Some of us see reverse blocks or some form of it.

Even PBA Experience Shots are going to vary House to House, lane machine to lane machine. They can change the volume of oil each time they lay down the oil from what I understand.

[TenPinSniper]

dbt302-What the hell are you talking about? Move your feet AND the spot? WHAT?? I don't think so,unless you just want to hook in front of the rack. You ONLY move your feet,not the spot. Alcohol on a widow? Not unless you want your butt kicked when I see you do it. 2000 abralon? Go learn to throw a hook. And If you even OWN a Widow,you would know that you always start out on the LEFT side of the approach,so who cares about guys outside on the right? At least give some poor guy the correct info before he ruins a good bowling ball. Chump.


Actually that is a valid adjustment on some lane conditions. For me change the surface is not about more hook but entry angle.

[Rowdy]

I'm getting damn good and tired of these guys who buy Widows and right away start jacking with the coverstock. If you don't like the ball the way it is,go buy something else. How come all the big numbers I've seen thrown with Widows are when the ball is OOB? Doesn't that tell you something? You HAVE to break these balls in right or you're toast. I've got 38 games on my new BWS,OOB finish,and just rolled the best series the ball has ever thrown! 757!! Now,WHY would I want to change that ball? And it wasn't a house shot,either. It was an old US open pattern. And the BWP gets better every week,too.

[Sparehater]

I'm getting damn good and tired of these guys who buy Widows and right away start jacking with the coverstock. If you don't like the ball the way it is,go buy something else. How come all the big numbers I've seen thrown with Widows are when the ball is OOB? Doesn't that tell you something? You HAVE to break these balls in right or you're toast. I've got 38 games on my new BWS,OOB finish,and just rolled the best series the ball has ever thrown! 757!! Now,WHY would I want to change that ball? And it wasn't a house shot,either. It was an old US open pattern. And the BWP gets better every week,too. Rowdy, maybe ur style matches up to the cover. Lets say u have a high speed player, u gonna tell him to go buy a new 200 dollar ball, when he can bring it down to 2000 Or maybe 1000 to get it to read better, and hey he might throw a 900 with it then. If a ball doesn't work for u, try making adjustments with the cover before u get a new one.

[Rowdy]

I think you would be better off making adjustments to your speed and line before you ruin a ball.

[Sparehater]

I think you would be better off making adjustments to your speed and line before you ruin a ball.
How is that ruining a ball. And lets say thats ur most consistant and best line and speed and rev-rate, ur gonna change all that to make a ball work when u can bring it down to 1000. I think not, if u had common sense, u wouldn't do that.

[TenPinSniper]

I'm getting damn good and tired of these guys who buy Widows and right away start jacking with the coverstock. If you don't like the ball the way it is,go buy something else. How come all the big numbers I've seen thrown with Widows are when the ball is OOB? Doesn't that tell you something? You HAVE to break these balls in right or you're toast. I've got 38 games on my new BWS,OOB finish,and just rolled the best series the ball has ever thrown! 757!! Now,WHY would I want to change that ball? And it wasn't a house shot,either. It was an old US open pattern. And the BWP gets better every week,too.

Hey, have I ever said. that you should change the ball before you bowl it??? Thats a NO. But we all are different... like I said above. Try if you dont like after a 2-4 weeks change it. Am I against change the balls before you bowl with it, not against that either we all know our style and so should your proshop.

You know I have a comment on what I think of the Widows, but I'm still trying to decide what I think of mine. And it would be wasted, IMO.

[Sparehater]

Yeah thats right tenpinsniper. He might get offered it because of someone deffering the exemption but he said he doesn't want to compete in the required amount of events u have to bowl in when ur exempt.

[Rowdy]

And what happens next week when the ball needs to be back at 4000? Oops. A good bowler adjusts to the lane conditions..Line,speed,etc. So you're gonna make everyone wait while you run home and polish that thing back to 4000? Please. I'll put my two Widows at OOB up against any tricked up Widow you can find. Neutral house,15 minute warm up,three games scratch,$500 put up by each player,winner take all. Anybody? I could use some extra $$$$$ this week.

[Sparehater]

And what happens next week when the ball needs to be back at 4000? Oops. A good bowler adjusts to the lane conditions..Line,speed,etc. So you're gonna make everyone wait while you run home and polish that thing back to 4000? Please. I'll put my two Widows at OOB up against any tricked up Widow you can find. Neutral house,15 minute warm up,three games scratch,$500 put up by each player,winner take all. Anybody? I could use some extra $$$$$ this week.Then i guess a good bowler could adjust that day with the widow at 2000 then right rowdy.

[BigDog]

And what happens next week when the ball needs to be back at 4000? Oops. A good bowler adjusts to the lane conditions..Line,speed,etc. So you're gonna make everyone wait while you run home and polish that thing back to 4000? Please. I'll put my two Widows at OOB up against any tricked up Widow you can find. Neutral house,15 minute warm up,three games scratch,$500 put up by each player,winner take all. Anybody? I could use some extra $$$$$ this week.

In case you haven't noticed (and you haven't), The widow coverstock is made to be tweaked with. I also brought mine down to 2000, and had it polished. I'm glad yours are working for you OOB. That's great. I had put over 100 games on mine, and I wanted a different and more aggressive look. I think the ball is better than ever.

I respect your opinion, please respect ours. Geez.

[Rowdy]

He could. And then he would owe me $500. Because while he's trying to get that 2000 ball to the pocket,I'll just keep on striking with my Widows! When you take one of them down to anything other than OOB,you limit your options on line and axis tilt,to name a few. Your margin of error becomes so small that it's impossible to hit the exact mark you need to hit every time. The 4000 ball has some forgiveness built into it,a 2000 ball doesn't. I've seen them both rolled on the same lanes at the same time and the 4000 ball walked away every time.

[Sin City Hammer]

I don't see why a person would want to change the BW from the OOB right away, when it does take about 10 or so games to break it in and even get adjusted to it. Maybe in time do that, but not right away with a new ball.

Granted, I've had problems with the BW at first because of the hook it has doesn't allow me to play my typical 2nd arrow from the right since I'm a stroker, and it goes past the head pin when I do (giving me only 3-4 pins knocked down), I have had to move my foot placement over to the left to fix the problem.

And after reading a few threads about ball speed, I figure I'm throwing the BW too hard, so tomorrow I'm taking to lesson from the state record holder for 3 game series with a 300/300/287 for a sweet 887, to see how I can become more effective when using it.

[Rowdy]

Damn,Dog. How the hell do you know what I have or haven't seen? Take both feet out of your mouth. I respect your right to take a perfectly good bowling ball and turn it into a doorstop. That's your business. But when someone buys a brand new Widow and wants some advice,I think even you would agree that changing the coverstock should be one of the LAST things a new bowler should do.Not the FIRST. That's all I was climbing his ass about.Everytime theres a BW post he comes out of the gate with this 2000 business. All I'm saying is try the easy stuff first,before you make a radical change like that.

[Sparehater]

He could. And then he would owe me $500. Because while he's trying to get that 2000 ball to the pocket,I'll just keep on striking with my Widows! When you take one of them down to anything other than OOB,you limit your options on line and axis tilt,to name a few. Your margin of error becomes so small that it's impossible to hit the exact mark you need to hit every time. The 4000 ball has some forgiveness built into it,a 2000 ball doesn't. I've seen them both rolled on the same lanes at the same time and the 4000 ball walked away every time.
O yea rowdy, but wut if hes a good bowler and can adjust to those conditions by changing tilt and stuff like that. What if u guys bowled on a condition where ur 4000 was sliding too far down the lane?

[TenPinSniper]

What Sparehater referred to is a post about Brian Voss, I deleted.

Here is the basic's of it...

Then what happened to Brian Voss? Technology. This guy can adjust, he is definately a one of the great bowlers. But this new technology left him behind. He is a super nice guy, think most of us here would be fortunate to have half of his talent.


Brian Voss takes a warm up shot, leaves a tenpin...
"Is this a tenpin house" <Most bowler's are nodding or saying, yes> "Just remember there all tenpin houses", Brian Voss (2006 National Bowling Week, Kansas City)

[TenPinSniper]

But when someone buys a brand new Widow and wants some advice,I think even you would agree that changing the coverstock should be one of the LAST things a new bowler should do.
Not the FIRST. That's all I was climbing his ass about.Everytime theres a BW post he comes out of the gate with this 2000 business. All I'm saying is try the easy stuff first,before you make a radical change like that.

Who is this person Rowdy?

[Rowdy]

If the ball is sliding too far I move all the way back on the approach and take a little off the ball.Strike-City! That's called making an adjustment,not changing a ball so you can keep throwing the same shot all nite long. Bring cash,I don't take checks or credit cards.

[TenPinSniper]

Come on Rowdy who is it?

[Rowdy]

TenPin-dbt302.Or Mr.2000.

[Rowdy]

Page 3 or later if you're trying to find it.

[TenPinSniper]

TenPin-dbt302.Or Mr.2000.

Guess your going to have to quote me, cause you miss read my post.

1st:
Please don't use Rubbing Alcohol, except to clean your inserts. You need something formulated to clean.

Ebonite/Track/PowerHouse Products are designed to clean bowling balls.
Energizer
Power Wash
Ball Cleaner

There are several other products that work well also.

Home based cleaners:
Some people use 409, Simple Green 1:1 with water, Windex.... some of these are good probably okay, others not so good.

Also never use Acetone. That's never ever under any circumstance.

The rest of my post are discussing the validity of changing your balls surface.

[Sin City Hammer]

I use the ebonite line of cleaners, I find them to be really effective with cleaning my arsenal, and since "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" I haven't tried te other cleaners from other companies as of yet.

[Rowdy]

No,I didn't misread anything.dbt302 says to use alcohol on a Widow. I wrote a sarcastic post hoping he drowns his widows in alcohol! Then all they'll do is go straight.
Brian Voss? He had elbow problems,not equipment issues. Saw him in South Florida about 6 months ago and he looked great.
Windex on a ball? Never.

[TenPinSniper]

Some of my better night have been with new or newer bowling less than or even 25 games... then again I have had good nights with balls that a year old too. Don't think it matters, it all about confidence.

[Rowdy]

Gotta agree with Sin. Powerhouse Energizer between games and Hook Again every 75 to 80 games. What's so hard about that?

[Sin City Hammer]

What the hell does rubbing alcohol got to do with a bowling ball? It's not like Hammers get a cramp or need a massage inbetween games or something.

I could understand the simple green usage, since it has been used on everything there is it seems. Why not orange clean? That way the Hammers smell fruity fresh, and people would ask if it's a storm ball your using.

For those of you that have used simple green, how effective is it for cleaning and removing oil from the balls?

[TenPinSniper]

No,I didn't misread anything.dbt302 says to use alcohol on a Widow. I wrote a sarcastic post hoping he drowns his widows in alcohol! Then all they'll do is go straight.
Brian Voss? He had elbow problems,not equipment issues. Saw him in South Florida about 6 months ago and he looked great.
Windex on a ball? Never.

Brian Voss would love if bowling went back to the old day aka the glory days... 70's and 80's. Some people never adjusted to the new game. Guess we don't agree, but I have heard his name specifically on this subject several times. He is a great bowler with tons of talent.

Never said use Windex... but there are several people who use it with success, along with alcohol... do they clean as good. Doubtful, very doubtful. They are not designed to break down lane conditioner. Serious bowlers should never ever use these products regularly... IMO.

[can-ham]

Damn,Dog. How the hell do you know what I have or haven't seen? Take both feet out of your mouth. I respect your right to take a perfectly good bowling ball and turn it into a doorstop. That's your business. But when someone buys a brand new Widow and wants some advice,I think even you would agree that changing the coverstock should be one of the LAST things a new bowler should do.Not the FIRST. That's all I was climbing his ass about.Everytime theres a BW post he comes out of the gate with this 2000 business. All I'm saying is try the easy stuff first,before you make a radical change like that.

Dude maybe use quotes when you are bitching someone out. This just looked like your meds whore off or you where snapping at Sin...


But just as annoyed you are at whom ever for always pushing their "sand to 2000", you pushing the "leave it in OOB" is also annoying. To each his own, I'd like to spend a day at Slaps house messing with all my cover stocks. I've had all my balls at different grits and found good coverage in my arsenal by adjusting the surfaces. Granted I like to roll new balls in their OOB condition so I can see where they fit. But after 20 game I'll have a good idea if I want to change the surface or not.

[TenPinSniper]

What the hell does rubbing alcohol got to do with a bowling ball? It's not like Hammers get a cramp or need a massage inbetween games or something.

I could understand the simple green usage, since it has been used on everything there is it seems. Why not orange clean? That way the Hammers smell fruity fresh, and people would ask if it's a storm ball your using.

For those of you that have used simple green, how effective is it for cleaning and removing oil from the balls?

If Energizer is not Cirtus based, I'd be surprised... been asked if thats what I was using several time. Orange Clean or one of those cleaners, knock offs.

[grayfin68]

If Energizer is not Cirtus based, I'd be surprised... been asked if thats what I was using several time. Orange Clean or one of those cleaners, knock offs.

Energizer must have citrus in it. It smells like oranges.

[TenPinSniper]

Dude maybe use quotes when you are bitching someone out. This just looked like your meds whore off or you where snapping at Sin...


But just as annoyed you are at whom ever for always pushing their "sand to 2000", you pushing the "leave it in OOB" is also annoying. To each his own, I'd like to spend a day at Slaps house messing with all my cover stocks. I've had all my balls at different grits and found good coverage in my arsenal by adjusting the surfaces. Granted I like to roll new balls in their OOB condition so I can see where they fit. But after 20 game I'll have a good idea if I want to change the surface or not.

There we go! Well said Can-Ham.

Just bring the good beer, if you are ever my way....

[Sin City Hammer]

Brian Voss would love if bowling went back to the old day aka the glory days... 70's and 80's. Some people never adjusted to the new game. Guess we don't agree, but I have heard his name specifically on this subject several times. He is a great bowler with tons of talent.

Never said use Windex... but there are several people who use it with success, along with alcohol... do they clean as good. Doubtful, very doubtful. They are not designed to break down lane conditioner. Serious bowlers should never ever use these products regularly... IMO.

I saw brian voss a week or so ago on espn classic, he is a smooth bowler without a doubt.

Unfortantly, bowling much like hockey a few years ago when they changed from the blue line to a more open game, the new rules and conditions have made it to where those who was able to hang around before was forced to either improve with the times, or retire.

Which is a shame, because some of them was good players, and in the case of hockey back when the lightning won the stanley cup, a few of them had to retire becasue they couldn't deal with the change instead of defending the cup.

[grayfin68]

What the hell does rubbing alcohol got to do with a bowling ball? It's not like Hammers get a cramp or need a massage inbetween games or something.

I could understand the simple green usage, since it has been used on everything there is it seems. Why not orange clean? That way the Hammers smell fruity fresh, and people would ask if it's a storm ball your using.

For those of you that have used simple green, how effective is it for cleaning and removing oil from the balls?

I used to use rubbing alcohol on my gear and I never had any problems with it. Alcohol does a great job of removing all types of grease and grime. The only reason I use energizer now is because I have a lot more equipment to protect than I used to and I'm just following the manufacturer's guidelines.

However, if someone wanted to use alcohol as a substitute in a pinch or to simply save money, I would bet that it would have no ill-effects on their equipment.

[Rowdy]

Can you fucking READ? Where did I say "leave it at OOB"? WHERE? Nowhere. I even said a coverstock change was okay if you had tried other things first! You wanna jump my shit,you better get yours together first! I was snapping at Sin? What's the SECOND word in that post? Come on,it's not that hard.Just count 'em off,one,two....Well,it looks like I was Talking to Dog,not Sin. Dude,I don't see your sorry ass anywhere along here,but up you pop,wrong as usual. My meds "whore" off? Christ,you can't even spell. What,that E machine you bought on sale at Target doesn't have spellcheck? Crawl back to your hole and come out when your freinds are on later today.

[Rowdy]

Gray-the coverstocks are pourous.The alcohol will ruin them.Hammer will tell you NOT to use it on their bowling balls.

[Sin City Hammer]

I used to use rubbing alcohol on my gear and I never had any problems with it. Alcohol does a great job of removing all types of grease and grime. The only reason I use energizer now is because I have a lot more equipment to protect than I used to and I'm just following the manufacturer's guidelines.

However, if someone wanted to use alcohol as a substitute in a pinch or to simply save money, I would bet that it would have no ill-effects on their equipment.

Way I look at it, is to each his own with whatever they choose to use to clean the Hammer product that they spent their hard earned money on. What works for one person might not wortk for another and so forth, and unfortantly there are alot of myths and whatever about using alcohol as there is about simple green.

Because I've never used either, and don't know the good and the bad ponits of using them, I can't really speak from expierence about them only from what I've read online and talked about with pro shop people in general.

Although, I would like to know from other people that use them faithfully. In the end, one thing is clear though, and that's it's being used on Hammer balls (which is why we are all here for anyway).

I'd rather drink the 80% alcohol though.

'Nuff said.

[can-ham]

There we go! Well said Can-Ham.

Just bring the good beer, if you are ever my way....

TenPin I owe you beer from way back with the breathing advice :)

[can-ham]

Can you fucking READ? Where did I say "leave it at OOB"? WHERE? Nowhere. I even said a coverstock change was okay if you had tried other things first! You wanna jump my shit,you better get yours together first! I was snapping at Sin? What's the SECOND word in that post? Come on,it's not that hard.Just count 'em off,one,two....Well,it looks like I was Talking to Dog,not Sin. Dude,I don't see your sorry ass anywhere along here,but up you pop,wrong as usual. My meds "whore" off? Christ,you can't even spell. What,that E machine you bought on sale at Target doesn't have spellcheck? Crawl back to your hole and come out when your freinds are on later today.

Wow dude that was uncalled for, nice job! Maybe you should check yourself and your spelling...

When you take one of them down to anything other than OOB,you limit your options on line and axis tilt,to name a few. Your margin of error becomes so small that it's impossible to hit the exact mark you need to hit every time. The 4000 ball has some forgiveness built into it,a 2000 ball doesn't.

[BigDog]

Damn,Dog. How the hell do you know what I have or haven't seen? Take both feet out of your mouth. I respect your right to take a perfectly good bowling ball and turn it into a doorstop. That's your business. But when someone buys a brand new Widow and wants some advice,I think even you would agree that changing the coverstock should be one of the LAST things a new bowler should do.Not the FIRST. That's all I was climbing his ass about.Everytime theres a BW post he comes out of the gate with this 2000 business. All I'm saying is try the easy stuff first,before you make a radical change like that.


I stand by what I said, and my feet are not in my mouth (Thank you for asking)
My BW is not at all a doorstop, and I have more room to work with because the entry angle is steeper now.
Changing the coverstock depends on the bowler. That should be left up to his or her discretion. If they want to do it first, that's fine by me. I don't change it first either, but that's me.
Maybe you should stop climbing peoples butts, and knock off the extreme foul language/in your face stuff. I know I don't like it, and I'm sure there are others as well.


Rowdy: These are some excerpts from Terms and Conditions for this board. Please take the time to read it:

* Any communication that is intended to harass, belittle, humiliate, threaten or cause embarrassment to a fellow member.
* Material that contains vulgar, obscene or indecent language or images.
* Material that defames, abuses or threatens others.


Look, there more than one way to approach the sport of bowling. You are acting like a child by with this "My way is the only way" rant. I have a "news flash" for you. It isn't. Simple as that. You can cuss and scream and yell all day long, and nothing will change that. If you want to have a mature debate about it, that's great. But swearing like a sailor proves just how immature you really are.

[BradM]

Can you fucking READ? Where did I say "leave it at OOB"? WHERE? Nowhere. I even said a coverstock change was okay if you had tried other things first! You wanna jump my shit,you better get yours together first! I was snapping at Sin? What's the SECOND word in that post? Come on,it's not that hard.Just count 'em off,one,two....Well,it looks like I was Talking to Dog,not Sin. Dude,I don't see your sorry ass anywhere along here,but up you pop,wrong as usual. My meds "whore" off? Christ,you can't even spell. What,that E machine you bought on sale at Target doesn't have spellcheck? Crawl back to your hole and come out when your freinds are on later today.


This may very well be the post that you get banned for. I'm looking forward to that.



Bearbos, Welcome man! Where are you bowling out of?

[Sin City Hammer]

Bottom line is, use whatever cleaner or home-made remedy that you feel comfortable in using to clean the new ball after it's been used, while some will say use ebonite cleaners, there are still a few other bowling companies that make good cleaning stuff as well.

The simple green way seems to be one of the cheaper options, but because I've never used it myself I don't know how effective it is getting rid of the dirt/grime/and oil from a ball and don't know how it leaves the surface (I hate a sticky surface) and how it does with removing fingerprints.

Alcohol, some that use it have said to have problems with it, while others say that they don't, so you would have to decide for yourself. There is nothing worse than regret, so whichever way you decide to clean the new ball with, stand by it.

Hopefully this can end the bickering and the miscommunication that seems to be happening in this thread.

[Sparehater]

I'm done with rowdy, hes a waste of time and i hope he gets banned for the language. Anyway, i sometimes use 409 if i ever run out of cleaner. It works good, no dillution though, just straight 409. People say that u should use simple green at a 1 to 1 ratio with water.

[EIGHTBALL033]

I stand by what I said, and my feet are not in my mouth (Thank you for asking)
My BW is not at all a doorstop, and I have more room to work with because the entry angle is steeper now.
Changing the coverstock depends on the bowler. That should be left up to his or her discretion. If they want to do it first, that's fine by me. I don't change it first either, but that's me.
Maybe you should stop climbing peoples butts, and knock off the extreme foul language/in your face stuff. I know I don't like it, and I'm sure there are others as well.


Rowdy: These are some excerpts from Terms and Conditions for this board. Please take the time to read it:


Look, there more than one way to approach the sport of bowling. You are acting like a child by with this "My way is the only way" rant. I have a "news flash" for you. It isn't. Simple as that. You can cuss and scream and yell all day long, and nothing will change that. If you want to have a mature debate about it, that's great. But swearing like a sailor proves just how immature you really are.

LANGUAGE AND ATTITUDE ARE VERY UNCALLED FOR BASED ON SOMEONES OPINION:confused: ,IS IT THAT SERIOUS,NO:mad:

[EIGHTBALL033]

This may very well be the post that you get banned for. I'm looking forward to that.



Bearbos, Welcome man! Where are you bowling out of?

I SAY WELCOME ALSO,AND PLEASE DON'T LET THE NEGITIVE OUT WEIGH THE GOOD ON THIS SITE WE ALL ARE NOT LIKE THAT:cool:ALSO HOPE THE QUEST THAT ARE WATCHING AND THINKING OF JOINING DONT RUN AWAY EITHER!

[Bearbos]

Bearbos, Welcome man! Where are you bowling out of?


Right now I am in Augusta, Georgia for a school, but I leave in like a week and a half to go back up to Fayetteville, NC( I live in Hope mills though). So I guess I "will" be bowling out of Fayetteville(or Hope Mills), NC. And Thank you guys for the welcome. :D

[BradM]

Well, like 8 ball said, stick around, it's not always a bunch of b.s.

[Smelly_Redneck]

As far as isopropal alcohol (rubbing alcohol) ruining a ball I defy anyone to show me scientific evidence that it can attack the plastic that the ball is made of. A chemical reaction will suffice.

I can see acetone, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits etc ruining a ball but there is very little that isopropal alcohol alcohol attacks. If you look at the Storm ball cleaner says right on it that it contains ethyl alcohol which is generally a stronger solvent than isopropal.

Of course a ball company is going to tell you to use a cleaner made for a bowling ball, especially when it is made by their parent company.

If anyone can show me a picture from a microscope where the pores of a ball get closed up by alcohol I will eat my words.

Another website says rubbing alcohol isn't strong enough and just sits on the surface of the ball.....

[blistershurt]

And If you even OWN a Widow,you would know that you always start out on the LEFT side of the approach,so who cares about guys outside on the right?

I start on the right side of the approach, thank you very much. Nice way to offend the strokers man. I throw almost EVERYTHING starting on the right side of the lane. I like Brad's word for you behavior: "jackassery"

[Sparehater]

I start on the right side of the approach, thank you very much. Nice way to offend the strokers man. I throw almost EVERYTHING starting on the right side of the lane. I like Brad's word for you behavior: "jackassery" Sam here. I never start out left, if i have to i will move left.

[steveo#3]

Can you fucking READ? Where did I say "leave it at OOB"? WHERE? Nowhere. I even said a coverstock change was okay if you had tried other things first! You wanna jump my shit,you better get yours together first! I was snapping at Sin? What's the SECOND word in that post? Come on,it's not that hard.Just count 'em off,one,two....Well,it looks like I was Talking to Dog,not Sin. Dude,I don't see your sorry ass anywhere along here,but up you pop,wrong as usual. My meds "whore" off? Christ,you can't even spell. What,that E machine you bought on sale at Target doesn't have spellcheck? Crawl back to your hole and come out when your freinds are on later today.

For the record...Target does not sell E Machines:D

[grayfin68]

Way I look at it, is to each his own with whatever they choose to use to clean the Hammer product that they spent their hard earned money on. What works for one person might not wortk for another and so forth, and unfortantly there are alot of myths and whatever about using alcohol as there is about simple green.

Because I've never used either, and don't know the good and the bad ponits of using them, I can't really speak from expierence about them only from what I've read online and talked about with pro shop people in general.

Although, I would like to know from other people that use them faithfully. In the end, one thing is clear though, and that's it's being used on Hammer balls (which is why we are all here for anyway).

I'd rather drink the 80% alcohol though.

'Nuff said.

Since we're talking about a solution applied to a ball, it has nothing to do with the person. If alcohol works, it works and has nothing to do with anything other than simple science.

[grayfin68]

Gray-the coverstocks are pourous.The alcohol will ruin them.Hammer will tell you NOT to use it on their bowling balls.

I've used it and seen people use it for years and not once did I ruin or see or hear about anyone else ruining their bowling ball because they used alcohol. It simply is not strong enough to hurt anything that a ball is made of and it evaporates almost instantly.

[grayfin68]

Can you fucking READ? Where did I say "leave it at OOB"? WHERE? Nowhere. I even said a coverstock change was okay if you had tried other things first! You wanna jump my shit,you better get yours together first! I was snapping at Sin? What's the SECOND word in that post? Come on,it's not that hard.Just count 'em off,one,two....Well,it looks like I was Talking to Dog,not Sin. Dude,I don't see your sorry ass anywhere along here,but up you pop,wrong as usual. My meds "whore" off? Christ,you can't even spell. What,that E machine you bought on sale at Target doesn't have spellcheck? Crawl back to your hole and come out when your freinds are on later today.

Rowdy, please stop with the name calling and insulting of people on here.

[steveo#3]

Okay..personally I believe that you need to use adjustments before sanding ro buying a new ball...plus I do not sand or mess with my coverstocks...one for fear that I'm gonna make the ball oval and two..I don't need to...however some people may prefer that and I support them in making their game better..but what a bowler needs to do is go out and consult his coach or pro shop guy or the people on these boards to find a ball that will better utilize his style....you do not need to buy an aggressive ball if you are a small hooking cross-alley bowler...its a waste of money....but like the saying goes .."to each his own" and I support that.....

[TenPinSniper]

TenPin I owe you beer from way back with the breathing advice :)

No problem, you know I'm happy to help.

Bearbos, Welcome man! Where are you bowling out of?

Yes, welcome to the board... sorry for crapping on your thread. We have some difference of opinions here, just seems to be more recently... this is a pretty good forum. Hope you stick around.

As far as isopropal alcohol (rubbing alcohol) ruining a ball I defy anyone to show me scientific evidence that it can attack the plastic that the ball is made of. A chemical reaction will suffice.

I can see acetone, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits etc ruining a ball but there is very little that isopropal alcohol alcohol attacks. If you look at the Storm ball cleaner says right on it that it contains ethyl alcohol which is generally a stronger solvent than isopropal.

Of course a ball company is going to tell you to use a cleaner made for a bowling ball, especially when it is made by their parent company.

If anyone can show me a picture from a microscope where the pores of a ball get closed up by alcohol I will eat my words.

Another website says rubbing alcohol isn't strong enough and just sits on the surface of the ball.....

X2 here... I like Ebonite Products, but I do agree with this... I far from believe that it will ruin or close the pores, just don't think it cleans as well.

[Sparehater]

X2 here... I like Ebonite Products, but I do agree with this... I far from believe that it will ruin or close the pores, just don't think it cleans as well. Rubbing Alcohol, will not get the oil out, will get dirt off, but will not harm the ball in any way but also doesn't get the oil out.

[Rowdy]

Why don't you just call up Hammer and ask them about using alcohol on their bowling balls,long term. Go ahead,I'll wait right here. Dum-dee-dah-do-diddy,it's okay,I already asked them this question over a year ago and know the answer. Still waiting,forget to pay the phone bill? Know the number? For those of you who can't wait,the answer is that long term use of alcohol will affect a porous coverstock to the point that the ball will no longer hook. So go ahead and keep putting alcohol on your Hammer,you need a new spare ball anyway.

[TenPinSniper]

Rubbing Alcohol, will not get the oil out, will get dirt off, but will not harm the ball in any way but also doesn't get the oil out.

Agreed, but I basically said, you need a cleaner that is designed to remove/breakdown lane condition aka lane oil.

[EIGHTBALL033]

Why don't you just call up Hammer and ask them about using alcohol on their bowling balls,long term. Go ahead,I'll wait right here. Dum-dee-dah-do-diddy,it's okay,I already asked them this question over a year ago and know the answer. Still waiting,forget to pay the phone bill? Know the number? For those of you who can't wait,the answer is that long term use of alcohol will affect a porous coverstock to the point that the ball will no longer hook. So go ahead and keep putting alcohol on your Hammer,you need a new spare ball anyway.

THINK YOU HAVE GOOD POINTS,BUT INSULTING AND BEING ASSININE ABOUT IT ,KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, YOU ACT LIKE YOU HAVE MENTAL PROBLEMS AND TAKING THEM OUT ON OTHERS,TRIED TO BITE MY TONGUE AND RESPECT YOU ,BUT GET GRIP ON YOURSELF:mad: :confused:

[can-ham]

THINK YOU HAVE GOOD POINTS,BUT INSULTING AND BEING ASSININE ABOUT IT ,KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, YOU ACT LIKE YOU HAVE MENTAL PROBLEMS AND TAKING THEM OUT ON OTHERS,TRIED TO BITE MY TONGUE AND RESPECT YOU ,BUT GET GRIP ON YOURSELF:mad: :confused:

It's hard to believe with Rowdy's sailor mouth and friendly attitude, that he hasn't been banned yet...

[Sin City Hammer]

Since we're talking about a solution applied to a ball, it has nothing to do with the person. If alcohol works, it works and has nothing to do with anything other than simple science.

It does have to with the person, becasue if he's told by a proshop that he goes to that alcohol does have the chance of messing up the cover of the ball compared to using the name brand stuff from the companies like ebonite/storm/brunswick/ect. that makes the popular cleaning stuff, then chances are he's going to listen to that proshop.

So, unless he sees first hand someone using alcohol to clean the ball with, and sees how effective it is for that person, then it is up to that person to decide for himself if that is the way he wants to go with. While some people swear by using alcohol, there are those that don't because they have had problems with the ball cover afterwards.

Nothing makes or breaks a ball/equipment/or cleaning line like word of mouth, and it's that way with alot of sports business in general. Which is the point I was making, if he's told by 95 people that alcohol doesnt work up to their standards and 5 people tell him otherwise that it does to those 5 people standards and more, it's up to that person to decide for himself. Does he go with the 95 or the 5.

[grayfin68]

It does have to with the person, becasue if he's told by a proshop that he goes to that alcohol does have the chance of messing up the cover of the ball compared to using the name brand stuff from the companies like ebonite/storm/brunswick/ect. that makes the popular cleaning stuff, then chances are he's going to listen to that proshop.

So, unless he sees first hand someone using alcohol to clean the ball with, and sees how effective it is for that person, then it is up to that person to decide for himself if that is the way he wants to go with. While some people swear by using alcohol, there are those that don't because they have had problems with the ball cover afterwards.

Nothing makes or breaks a ball/equipment/or cleaning line like word of mouth, and it's that way with alot of sports business in general. Which is the point I was making, if he's told by 95 people that alcohol doesnt work up to their standards and 5 people tell him otherwise that it does to those 5 people standards and more, it's up to that person to decide for himself. Does he go with the 95 or the 5.

The only thing that has to do with the person is whether he believes that it works or not. The reality of the issue is based on science and nothing else.

Someone could probably convince themself that mayonaise works as a cleaner.

The thing about alcohol is that people have been using it for years to clean their bowling balls with (porous or not) and it does clean them. Maybe it's not as effective as a ball cleaner type of product, but many ball cleaners contain alcohol.

And as far as Hammer recommending Ebonite Powerhoues Energizer goes.... Of course they're going to recommend that. For starters, their company is owned by Ebonite and they're going to obviously recommend something marketed for bowling balls.

[blistershurt]

Cleaning a porus and a urethane ball are completely different. Technically, the substance that makes the skid and saves energy for the backend is the plasticizer. Alcohol=drying agent. Drying agent=takes out plasticizer. Remember, just cuz a pro shop uses alcohol or acetone for that matter, as a cleaner, doesnt mean that its good for the ball. Ask ANY of the pro shop workers/owners on here. Have a fun time with the expensive gazing ball.

[Smelly_Redneck]

Cleaning a porus and a urethane ball are completely different. Technically, the substance that makes the skid and saves energy for the backend is the plasticizer. Alcohol=drying agent. Drying agent=takes out plasticizer. Remember, just cuz a pro shop uses alcohol or acetone for that matter, as a cleaner, doesnt mean that its good for the ball. Ask ANY of the pro shop workers/owners on here. Have a fun time with the expensive gazing ball.

Well if you go by that and what I found on Ebonites website then that is a good thing.

A ball, like a sponge, can be compressed. When a ball is compressed by repeated use, plasticizer migrates to the surface and concentrates in the compression area. The amount of migration is dependent on many different variables, including lane surface, oil type, style of player and drilling to name a few. Plasticizer migration is normal and takes on average about 100 plus games to have noticeable detrimental effects on performance.

What Creates The Hook Is Also What Kills It
Plasticizer migration does two things in high concentrations. First, it slows oil absorption, which is one of the reasons for loss in ball performance. Second, and more importantly, migration concentrates plasticizer in the track area of the ball.

[blistershurt]

You know...the caption above part of the quote is "What creates the hook also kills it" end of story, find out what that means, you DONT wanna destroy it, you want to get the plasticizer further down in the coverstock, aka add some more surface.

[Smelly_Redneck]

You know...the caption above part of the quote is "What creates the hook also kills it" end of story, find out what that means, you DONT wanna destroy it, you want to get the plasticizer further down in the coverstock, aka add some more surface.

From what I understand that the plasticizer is in the ball because it is what created the pores during the casting of the ball, hence what created the hook.

Another quote from Ebonite's pitch for Hook Again
Powerhouse Hook Again removes the saturation of plasticizer and oil using a direct contacting agent. This agent has been scientifically formulated to extract plasticizer and oil from the ball using only direct compressive contact.

I found some good info here http://www.timsbowling.com/hot_water_soak.html, not sure on how accurate it is though since I really don't know the source.

And like I said before Storm's Ball Cleaner contains alcohol, says so right on the bottle.

[blistershurt]

i know it does, all ball cleaners do, they have to, to an extent to pull stuff out of the ball. Yeah I know about hot water baths I do em alot for my stuff.

Plasticizer is what creates the pores, which is why if you had none then you'd have an expensive urethane ball (I wonder if it would still hook like crazy, just over the entire lane instead of skidding...hmm...experiment on a columbia 300 ball time!)