My trick layout

[BubbaRay]

Do not mind the dates on the pics I haven't used this camers for a while. As you can tell . These pics were taken last night around 11:00

I have recieved some requests to see pics of my trick layout on my NM. I have attached the pics of the NM and BW trick layouts.

First is the NM.

The pin was placed 4 and 3/4 inches from my PAP and 1 inch from the VAL.

The CG is lower left of the middle finger . The 3 dots just below the fingers are a reflection of cieling fan lights. These are not markings on the ball

Hart was placed on the third flare of my trac. Middle finger drilled 3 inches deep to reduce excess finger weight. No weight hole was required.





Second on is my BWS. Drilled the same only middle finger didn't have to be drilled so deep . No weight hole needed on this neither.

WARNING: THIS LAYOUT CAN ONLY BE USED IN HIGH MASS BIAS BALLS.

This layout puts alot of negative side weight in the ball. Unless you have a rev rate of 300 or higher I don't recommend this drilling. This layout gets the ball down the lane another 2 to 3 feet . The break point is alot later before it turns.

[Street Racer]

hmm interesting... i might have to try it...

[drw02]

any chance of a video of the balls in action, what lines/conditions are they best for?

[BubbaRay]

I won't be able to get a video of the two in action untill this weekend. Time is of an essence this week. But I promise I will get a video of them in action. I usuall play 20-10 with this layout but have also played 15-4.

[idlehourlegend]

Ive seen him throw them, these balls go very long before they make a turn but when they do they really snap and it works very well. Because he has'nt thrown that much speed until lately and has so much hand he needs the length, so if you guys are the same way this would be a great drilling.

[TenPinSniper]

The Mass Bias on the No Mercy looks to be around grip center and thumb hole. But it definately has a bunch of negative side weight either way. Then again so does the BW.

What is your rev rate and ball speed. This could be interesting for me, with lower ball speed and the revs.

Can't wait to see the Video's of these in action.

Thanks for sharing. Was going to guess you where a lefty... saw the finger holes.

[BubbaRay]

The Mass Bias on the No Mercy looks to be around grip center and thumb hole. But it definately has a bunch of side weight either way. Then again so does the BW.

What is your rev rate and ball speed. This could be interesting for me, with lower ball speed and the revs.

Can't wait to see the Video's of these in action.

Thanks for sharing. Was going to guess you where a lefty... saw the finger holes.



Nope, take a closer look. The hart is in the trac on the left side of the thumb hole. The spot you see in the center grip area on both balls is a reflection. The hart is deffinately ion the trac. The CG is left lower of the middle finger. (right handed)

[Thepainscoming]

Hey Bubba are u a low tracker. The hart seems pretty low.

[BubbaRay]

Not really that low. If you visualize the hart being in the 3rd flare of the trac it should give you a pretty good idea of the trac

[slap]

Nope, take a closer look. The hart is in the trac on the left side of the thumb hole. The spot you see in the center grip area on both balls is a reflection. The hart is deffinately ion the trac. The CG is left lower of the middle finger. (right handed)

the hart does not mark the mass bias.

[BubbaRay]

There is no other mass bias mark on this ball. But I never really reerred to the hart as the mass bias. I said the hart in placed on the third flare of trac

Sorry my bad

[Rowdy]

I really like those layouts and can tell what you're trying to do with them. Can you put this layout on a BWP as well? I'm gonna have to find me a couple more Black Widows and get busy with my driller. Ball Hog time.:D

[BubbaRay]

I don't kn ow if it will work on the BWS. But then again this was not recommended for the BWS either. I went ahead and did it anyways and I love the reaction of the BWS with this layout. A nice evn arc . Goes real long .

Now the NM is has a real aggressive backend with this . Both ar shined.

[Rowdy]

Soon as I can find a BWP to do thid to,I'll get with you for the drill pattern. Thanks,Bubba

[TenPinSniper]

So the balls are polished or is it the oil shine and energizer shine combo?

What is your normal ball speed?
These layouts look like they could be useful on a second shift or squad. When you start to have trouble with the transition and lanes are fried.

So would this be considered a weaker drilling for somone with revs and not alot of ball speed?

[slap]

These "new" "trick layouts" are Asym Flip drills first made popular by Mo Pinel years ago. You can use them on any ball with a moderate to strong mass bias diff. As far as the current Hammers either BW or NM are fair game. I have two with flip drills.

Here is a little light reading...LOL

#1. Ebonite study of the effect of Pin to VAL distance

http://www.seriouskeglers.com/2007/09/how-does-pin-to-val-distance-impact.html

#2 Morich Asym Flip Drill Chart
http://www.bowlingwiki.net/wiki/images/d/db/Moextraasymflip.jpg

[BubbaRay]

Slap:

Those are not the layouts I have

[slap]

Really,

How do they differ?

[BubbaRay]

If those are for a right handed bowler, look at mine. Those you posted do not put negative side weight in the ball. Take a look where the pin is / CG is and the hart on my NM. They are not even close for a right handed bowler. I am right handed . You may be thinking I am left handed buy the pic I posted on ther NM . Belive me not close. I can discuss this more after I return from my league play tonight around 10

[slap]

From my understanding CG has very little affect on a high differential mass bias ball. That said, I am curious about your layout so I'm off as well to do some research.

[BubbaRay]

From my understanding CG has very little affect on a high differential mass bias ball. That said, I am curious about your layout so I'm off as well to do some research.


Ok I'll try and clear thisa up before I leave for league play.

I understand what you are saying and what you posted slap.

I am a right handed bowler. You layouts you posted are for right handed bowlers as well. If you take a look at my layout, The pin is approx. 2 and 1/8 inches above ring finger of right hand,

The CG is left lower middle finger of right hand and appro. 5 and 1/2 inches from my PAP. which brings it on the left side of the ball looking at the grip for a right hander.

The Hart is placed on the 3rd flare on my trac. Which the hart now is 7 and 1/4 inches from my PAP for a right hander which puts it on the left side of the ball.

I had a 4 inch pin in this ball and 3oz of top weight.

This drilling put almost 1 oz of negative side weight in the ball which makes the NM really energize through mid lane. It also goes 2-3 feet longer than a stron layout like what you posted. I need this for the amopunt of revs I have . I throw 17-19 mph.

So if I this were drilled for a left handed bowler and the layout acme out exactly like mine, it would be what you had posted but only reverse the pic in your post for a left handed. WHich would be a real strong drilling.


I hope I explainded this a little better now.

[BubbaRay]

I really like those layouts and can tell what you're trying to do with them. Can you put this layout on a BWP as well? I'm gonna have to find me a couple more Black Widows and get busy with my driller. Ball Hog time.:D

Rowdy, what I tried with the layout was to get more length out of the ball because of the hand I put in the ball. This drill wasn't recommended for the BW but Iwent and experimented anyways. It was recommended for the NM. With this layout I get another 2-3 feet in length before is makes it's move. On the NM it goes long and has a real aggressive back end . With it on my BW a 20-18 or 8 shot has a nice arc to it without a real hard flip. ( unless it hit the dry. As for the BWP I am finding out if it will work on it . I'll let you know.

[BubbaRay]

So the balls are polished or is it the oil shine and energizer shine combo?

What is your normal ball speed?
These layouts look like they could be useful on a second shift or squad. When you start to have trouble with the transition and lanes are fried.

So would this be considered a weaker drilling for somone with revs and not alot of ball speed?


On the NM it's length wil aressive back end.

My balls are polished so that you could almost shave in them. The pic does not do justice for the shine. They are at box finished and polished.

At one house where I bow I usually move 8 boards the second game when they start to dry. Play the same 20-5 line. . But at the other house where I bowl where there is more oil laid down I usualy stay at the same spot on the approach and keep the same line . I did this with my NW tonight and didn't move at all.

My ball speed is usualy around 17-19 mph and rev rate is in the mid 400's.

This works well with revs.

[slap]

Okay I see what you're saying.

The mass bias on the BW is in the ~135 degree position. The HART of your No Mercy should but the mass bias around slighty to the left of your thumb. Intersting...

[Stampy79]

Hey Bubba, are those Magic Carpets in the thumbholes of those balls ? I use them on everything. I dont think I could bowl without them anymore !:D

[BubbaRay]

Nope. Just good ole bowlers tape

[black widow pearl 336]

How do you figure your rev rate?

[BubbaRay]

How do you figure your rev rate?


There is a formula to calculate rev rate.

RPM's, or revolutions , is the speed of the revolutions. The faster the revs, the greater the turning force is at the breakpoint. To measure RPM's you will need a low flare ball (spare ball is good), a piece of tape (4 to 6 inches long), and a video camera. Place the piece of tape running from the bowler's PAP to above the fingers. Film from behind, with a close up of the hand at the release point. As the ball is being released, stop the tape. Assign the tape a position on a clock (i.e. the piece of tape points to 10:00). In slow motion, click off 10 frames and freeze . Count the amount that the tape rotates as hours, as if it was the hour hand on a clock. Multiply the amount of hours by 15. (For example, the ball started at 10:00. After 10 slow motion frames the tape ended at 5:00, passing 10:00 once). One complete rotation around (10:00 to 10:00) counts as 12 hours. 10:00 to 5:00 (the ending position) equals 5 hours. This is a total of 17 hours of rotation. Multiply the amount of hours (17) by 15. This equals 255 Rpm's. The other way to measure revolutions is called hand revs. You will also need the piece of tape and a video camera for this. Repeat the steps for measuring RPM's, however let the ball travel 15 feet down the lane. This is the distance of the fourth arrow. Note the starting position of the tape and count the amount of times the ball has rotated using fractions, not hours. Take the total amount of rotations and multiply by 4. This equals hand revs. For example, the ball started at 9:00 and ended at 3:00, passing past 9:00 three times. This would result in 3 1/2 rotations. 3 1/2 X 4 = 14 hand revs. Why do we not count the total amount of revs the ball rotates all the way down the lane until it hits the pins? Because friction will slow down the ball speed and create additional revolutions. By using the first 15 feet, we are counting the rotations in the presence of lane oil, a very low friction environment.

Sounds confusing I know but try it and you will see it's not that confusing at all.

[J_W73]

Okay I see what you're saying.

The mass bias on the BW is in the ~135 degree position. The HART of your No Mercy should but the mass bias around slighty to the left of your thumb. Intersting...


I know this is an old post but I talked to a Hammer rep about where the actual mass bias is on the No Mercy. The HART does not mark the mass bias.
Drilling a Black Widow with the MB on the track will not yield the same drilling as the No Mercy with the HART on the track.

Here is his reply

Thanks for your question from the Hammer website. The HART marks the axis that is perpindicular to the traditional mass bias axis. To find the mass bias axis draw a line from the pin through the HART. Then draw a perpendicular line to this one that runs through the HART. On this line measure 6 3/4" over and this will mark the mass bias axis.

[BubbaRay]

I can tell you first hand that I have a NM and BWS as you noticed from the pics of mine and the BWS has the same reaction as the NM. The NM may move2-3 boards more than the BWS drilled this was with the MB on the BWS on the 3rd flare of my track but still has the same nice even arc into the pockey without the flip. My NM has the pin 5" from my PAP and 1" from my VAL. The Cg is kicked way to the left of grip center and the Hart on the NM and MB on the BWS is on the 3rd flare of my trac. Idlehour legend and VMS topgun can attest that both balls react the same as they both wittnesed them .

[J_W73]

ok.. I'll take your word for it but if what the Hammer rep said is true the balls shouldn't react the same should they.. ?? The mb on the track of the Black widow would create a nice smooth (non arcy) roll.. but the no mercy should be more aggressive with the actual mb probably to the right of the thumb hole
Don't know.

[BubbaRay]

The hasmmer guy's are right but remember the pin is 5" from PAP and the key is Pin 1" from the VAL. The Pin 1" from VAL is what gives the BWS a nice smooth arc downlane because it puts negative side weight into the BWS and smooths the skid / flip ot smooth.

The NM with the same drill and pin 1" from VAL produces alot of length without over reacting .

[TenPinSniper]

Thanks for your question from the Hammer website. The HART marks the axis that is perpindicular to the traditional mass bias axis. To find the mass bias axis draw a line from the pin through the HART. Then draw a perpendicular line to this one that runs through the HART. On this line measure 6 3/4" over and this will mark the mass bias axis.

This is actually incorrect, to a point.

The best way to find the Mass Bias is to use a compass set to 6 3/4". You would then draw arch's from the PIN and HART. The intersect would be at 90 degree angle, if you draw a straight line between the PIN in HART. You would draw a line between that line and the intersection points at 90* from the Pin to HART line.

The Measurement of 6 3/4" can be made with a Pro-Sect or Quarter Scale, since the standard store compass would have trouble marking these intersection on a bowling ball.

There is a Mass Bias on either side of the ball. So Basically what ever suits you best.


Here is the information I take my information from. (Brian Graham)
This is the High RG Axis (called mass bias in bowling). The No Mercy is marked on the Medium RG Axis so the mark is not the mass bias. The actual mass bias is located at 6 ¾” from the pin and 6 ¾” from the HART on both sides of the ball. The concept behind the No Mercy was to provide the ability to do strong layouts without the need for weight holes.

Brian

[J_W73]

This is actually incorrect, to a point.

The best way to find the Mass Bias is to use a compass set to 6 3/4". You would then draw arch's from the PIN and HART. The intersect would be at 90 degree angle, if you draw a straight line between the PIN in HART. You would draw a line between that line and the intersection points at 90* from the Pin to HART line.

The Measurement of 6 3/4" can be made with a Pro-Sect or Quarter Scale, since the stand drug store compass would have trouble marking these intersection on a bowling ball.

There is a Mass Bias on either side of the ball. So Basically what ever suits you best.


Here is the information I take my information from. (Brian Graham)

I would have to take a look at it but I think this is the same place. Is the HART 6 3/4 from the pin? If so then a 6 3/4 on a line that is perpendicular to the line going through the pin and hart would be the same point at a point 6 3/4 from the pin

[TenPinSniper]

I'm positive my description is correct.

If you draw a perpendicular line from the HART it will not be 6 3/4" from the Pin Locator. A perpendicular line from the HART would not be 6 3/4" from the PIN.

I believe the HART is 6 3/4" from the Pin.

A Perpendicular Line has 4 points of concern, in this case...
a=Pin
b=HART
c=MB
d=90* point on the "ab" line from Point "c". Point "d" will be 3 3/8" from either point "a" or "b".
Believe the "cd" line will be around 5 3/4".

If your going to layout a No Mercy with Mass Bias Placement, sure you'd like to have the correct location. I'm sure they know the correct information, they just did not give great instructions on locating the point of Mass Bias.

I do have a No Mercy with a Trick Layout, where locating the Mass Bias was of some concern.

[J_W73]

I'm positive my description is correct.

If you draw a perpendicular line from the HART it will not be 6 3/4" from the Pin Locator. A perpendicular line from the HART would not be 6 3/4" from the PIN.

I believe the HART is 6 3/4" from the Pin.

A Perpendicular Line has 4 points of concern, in this case...
a=Pin
b=HART
c=MB
d=90* point on the "ab" line from Point "c". Point "d" will be 3 3/8" from either point "a" or "b".
Believe the "cd" line will be around 5 3/4".

If your going to layout a No Mercy with Mass Bias Placement, sure you'd like to have the correct location. I'm sure they know the correct information, they just did not give great instructions on locating the point of Mass Bias.

I do have a No Mercy with a Trick Layout, where locating the Mass Bias was of some concern.

What you are saying will work but is in effect the same thing.. if the pin and hart are indeed 6 3/4 from eachother.. do it this way.. put the pin at 12 oclock so it is on top of the ball.. now put the hart at 9 oclock so it is on the left side of the ball.. from the pin to the hart would be a quarter of the balls circumference. so if you draw another line that is perpendicular to that line from the hart.. and go 6 3/4 that will put the mark in the front of the ball as you are looking at it.. If you go from the pin perpendicular 6 3/4 you will end up at the same mark. That is only if the pin and hart are 6 3/4 away from eachother.. I will check it out when i get my no mercy..

[J_W73]

The CG is lower left of the middle finger . [B]The 3 dots just below the fingers are a reflection of cieling fan lights. These are not markings on the ball



This layout puts alot of negative side weight in the ball. Unless you have a rev rate of 300 or higher I don't recommend this drilling. This layout gets the ball down the lane another 2 to 3 feet . The break point is alot later before it turns.

How do you not need a weight hole to make it legal with the CG that far to the left of grip center? What was your top weight?

[BubbaRay]

Depending how much top weight there is to start and see how far and up to the right of my ring finger the pin is? This might put too much side weight in the ball. IMy ball was too heavy on the positive side after this drilling so instead of puting a weight hole in it I went 4 inches deep with the middle finger hole to take the weight out.

[J_W73]

Depending how much top weight there is to start and see how far and up to the right of my ring finger the pin is? This might put too much side weight in the ball. IMy ball was too heavy on the positive side after this drilling so instead of puting a weight hole in it I went 4 inches deep with the middle finger hole to take the weight out.

I can't see your pics for some reason. They aren't showing up on the page.

[BubbaRay]

Ok I'll repost them when I get home from work tonight J W.