Pin and Top weight for my Son's new raw anger

[VmsTopGun]

My son bowls on Saturday am in a league. Uses a 14# BWS now but it wont pick up the lane in the exxon valdez oil pattern that they lay down even when he takes a lot of speed off the ball. I'm not excited about having the BWS surfaced to 2000 or 1500 just for 3 lines on saturday. So we're looking at getting a raw anger for HEAVY oil and leaving the BWS @4K. He's more of a tweener with his 12# total inferno, but a stroker w/ the 14# BWS. he play's between the 5 and 10 straight up the lane and lets the ball do the rest.

Looking to order RA tonight when we go to the lanes for practice. Question is will a 3-4" or 4-5" pin and heavier top weight provide more hook potential than a shorter pin and lighter top weight given the same #3 drill pattern?

Thanks
Jim

[BubbaRay]

What I would suggest is a 3-4" pin and around 2 oz of top weight. You want the ball to get into a early rool to make it throgh the oil. Although you are going to be pleasantly suprised when he throws this ball how much it hooks.

Just make sure you don't locate the pin to far from his PAP. The farther away it is the more length it will have. Place it around 3-4" from his PAP. But remember these are only suggestions.

[Stampy79]

I agree with Bubba, I too do not like adjusting the cover on my favorite stuff, SO I buy more stuff ! They say the ideal pin placement for max roll is 3 3/8 from PAP. Also known as a leverage drilling. It will work for sure like Bubba said and he will find a huge difference in the two balls. Also keep in mind he may have to search for the part of the oil slick that is the thinnest. Try looking where the oil covered ducks are escaping to !

[VmsTopGun]

Ordered the RA tonight and had a short discussion w/ driller about pin length. He wants to use 2-3" and refered to using 3-4" as doing an exotic drill pattern. I don't want to anger him by attempting to have a more lengthy discussion about pin length and distance from the PAP which he may construe as second guessing his ability. I think the next two closest places that have experts may be buddies in CT. and Green Ridge in PA. Both a bit of a hike. Am I fretting to much about this or should I be more insistant?

[bluerrpilot]

He is there to offer his professional opinion and advise. In the long run, your the one that is paying for it and you should get what you pay for. if there is something you dont like and dont feel comfortable, then back up and ask him more questions

[BubbaRay]

I agree, he is there for that very reason. To offer his advice after you discuss with him about a ball and layouts. Trust him . Every proshop guy who was a pro / is a pro / or goes to regionals will never offer ill advice or suggestions. Don't worry to much about the pins and distances . he will suggest what's best for your son. Although it would be nice for you to come up so we could meet and roll a few games. Here's a thought VMS. One of our houses here runs a hugh no tap tournament in the summer. it would be great for you to come up and bring a freind and we can get a team together for the tournament. they have team and doubles events. Top prize is good also. $5,000 first place team. Think about it and keep in touch. Spots fill fast

[idlehourlegend]

Yea I agree 100% trust your pro shop guy he will do what is right for your son. Although like Bubba said We all could meet up and bowl a couple of games if you come up here in our area.

[Rowdy]

Try redrilling the Widow. If you're rolling on an Exxon oil slick a #1 layout will still hook,even at OOB finish. I just rolled on that very thing tonite and my BWS had no problem at all going up the 5 and crushing the pocket. After a few games I could swing it out to the 2 or 3 board and still have it come back.

[Rowdy]

When the guy drilling the ball PAYS for the ball he can do what he wants. Since you're paying the freight,it's your call how you want it drilled. If he's got a problem with that,find another pro shop to do business with. Has this guy watched your kid roll some games? Not 2 or 3 shots,complete games. Has he looked at the track on the Widow? Don't be worried about upsetting him at all. If you're not 100% comfy with the layout,SPEAK UP! Personally I don't even think thats the right ball for what you want,but thats your call. He's in the business of selling bowling balls. OF COURSE he's gonna tell you that you have to have a new ball. When I get a ball drilled,my pro shop guy and I will go over that layout for HOURS! We draw so many lines on the ball it looks like we're playing tic-tac-toe. But we start with a clear objective of WHAT we want that ball to do. Then we worry about the layout to achieve that result. We haven't had to redrill a ball in years. It's your money and your ball,so you have to make the call.

[VmsTopGun]

Ray and Idle, Thanks for the invite. Wife's going to be in europe for at least two weeks so we may be able to get together over the next month or so. Idle you're only a year or so older than my son so it would be great if you could spend some time with him too. Next summers competition sounds like a must do.

Rowdy, I always read your posts for content and find them valuable. Including stealing the hot water. Given that I knew half of what you know about drill patterns then I would be far more assertive with him.

Over the past few weeks, driller(matt) has watched and coached my son with the widow. When we try to slow him down to match the ball with the oil, we fly off the right side and clean the gutter 5 times a game at least. So were trying to get a better match of ball with oil to keep rythem, where's the spell checker when you need one.

Now let me point out that I'm quite aware that throwing more balls at the situation will not make him a better bowler. I'm never one to blame or allow blame to be placed on sporting equipment. But there is a balance of having the right equipment for the right conditions. We may debate about the right equipment here and please forward your suggestions for the ball you would recommend, but we all use different balls for different conditions and situations.e.g.spare balls. My son is new to using finger grips and a #14 ball. He can't crank the widow the same way he can the #12 TI. He needs to be able to consistantly repeat foot speed swing and release. Over time with more strength that will come as he has natural athletic ability and very good muscle memory. His BWS is #3 ish drill and when the lanes dry off some he's far better. He's had 2 190+ w/ the BWS on drier lanes. If we already had three balls then we would't be buying a heavy oil ball. But I must admit the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.;) I really didn't need a BWP, but i have one. Once again, I'm a serious reader of your posts and learn from each one. Keep the advice comming.

[idlehourlegend]

Yea Vms thats sounds like a great idea Id love to meet you and your son and bowl together and try to help him out.As for balls the anger is a great ball for heavy oil and I would definately recommend over anything especially for the price.Your son will love the ball and both of you will be amazed at how much this ball will hook on oil.As for the weight if it is drilled right and fits him well he shouldnt really notice it .

[VmsTopGun]

The anger is in and were going to go for the drilling today early afternoon. Looking to get Pin to Pap close to the 3-3/8 as suggested and let him go from there.

[BubbaRay]

Vms please let us know it worked out .

[VmsTopGun]

We went tonight to get the ball, he had it drilled when we arrived, pics on photobucket. Couldn't get a lane at 6:30 so my son wants to go after Tae-Kwan-Do 9:15 PM?! The layout looks lot like my pearl....

[Rowdy]

Of course he wants to roll at 9:15! Could you buy a new car and NOT drive it? You ALWAYS have to roll that new ball right away.:)

[slap]

You're right about that one Rowdy!

[VmsTopGun]

Oh, I'm draggin today. didn't arrive home until after 11:00. Daughter decides to tag along and her NM edges him by two pins. Let the rivalry continue.

Hey guys chime in on the drill. we were looking for a strong arc but to me it looks alot like the skid/flip on my pearl. He said he wanted to move the pin out away from the fingers due to high track rolling close to the thumb hole. After about 5 frame I checked the oil track. Guess what, so much for that idea, track up against the thumb hole. Gee maybe we need to work more on the release?? The ball goes straight down the 10 board for 45 ft(approx, will watch closely on Saturday AM) then turns into the pins. The motion is not remarkably different than his BWS. It did seem to pick up the lane really well in the back end. Any thoughts on having the surface brought down to 1000??