Coverstock Adjustment ?

[Stampy79]

Ok guys. It seems the more we do with these things the more we learn. One thing I have heard working in a Pro Shop is "Well, I know it will work better when it gets a track in it " (Old school thought, I know) I have heard it so many times that I have just stopped explaining to folks that the new equipment does not work this way. Some of you may have seen in an earlier response of mine that I tried sanding the NM to 1000 to get it to start earlier with no success. That turned out to be a blessing in disguise. After I gave up trying to make it start earlier and just buy the Anger instead, I put the NM back to 4000 and whala ! It now starts earlier than it did and falls right in where I needed it to be. This makes me believe that the smoother these new surfaces are, the more friction and the sooner the break ! I first learned this with my Total NV and it seems to carry on in the Hammer line too. What are some of your thoughts on this subject. I am curious to hear because we now seem to have a good group of knowledgable guys to share ideas and technics with. Wow imagine that, thats what these forums are supposed to be for ! Let me know guys I am always willing to listen and learn. It certainly makes for better scores in the last 4 years for me.:D

[TenPinSniper]

Stampy, I could not agree more. I think the condition of the coverstock is very important, right up there with good cleaning habits.

I've had alot of success with newer bowling balls, first night or week, month... seem like they lose a little over time.

Here is another good example... I seem to like my Vicious and High Rev when the have a nice High Shine.

This summer in my PBA Experience League I played with my No Mercy at 1000 and 2000, even used this surface in league play with success. Put the ball back to 4000 for the Shark (don't ask why), but it worked well.

Think what it gets down too, is these modern bowling ball is very coverstock sensitive. Where as older ball would hook more as the cover became tracked.

[Stampy79]

And we have touched on the 1 reason that I do not like working in a pro shop ! I sell a $200 ball to a guy, that I know will never ever see a tub of hot water or a rejuvinator for the rest of its existance not to mention a towel occasionally. Then you hear things about half way through the season behind your back or in the bar about the Pro Shop guy not knowing anything about balls or they changed the shot because the ball doesnt work anymore. I think I am gonna make a sign for the shop that says ;

Buyer Beware, These new weapons are VERY HIGH MAINTENANCE , buy at you own risk !:p

[BubbaRay]

Here's something to ponder. You buy a Raw Anger. The cover is OOB 2000 Abralon sanded. Now you Buy a BWP. Coverstock OOB is 4000 abralon polished. Evedently through extensive testing with these new balls, there is a method to the madness on why all OOB coverstocks are different on these two balls. There has to be a reason behind it. So what we do to the covers after that is only fine tuning them to fit our game. How many of us have used balls with OOB finishes and had tremendous sucess. So there is a reason behing the difference.

[bluerrpilot]

So what we do to the covers after that is only fine tuning them to fit our game.


This is why I dont buy into the idea that the coverstock is 80% of ball reaction and core is less than 50%. I feel that the placement of the core is what dictates the ball motion. Coverstock changes only fine tune that a little bit.

[LeftHook]

I second that!!!!! The ball comes out of the factory exactly the way the engineers found it to work the best. It doesn't make too much sense to buy a ball, find it doesn't do what you want it to, then destroy to cover to make it behave. Each ball has it's own reaction and niche in the bowling world. I would never use my BWS when the lanes are destroyed, that's what my BWP is for. If I alter the cover then I've altered it's purpose and I've narrowed my flexibility to match any lane condition. If a bowlers only goal in life it make a ball hook like Tommy Jones, then somewhere the fundamentals of the system have gone Brooklyn (I know, cute, huh?).

I agree that the drilling is key to making the ball work with OOB covers. The problem is that most people don't really know what they want a ball to do other than get them strikes. With so many layouts I think people are just confused. It's a shame people can't test balls on a more frequent basis and see what their layout should be. I like to play down-n-in which is perfect for SKID/FLIP. I've read many posts about people sanding their BWP to make it hook earlier. Ummm....wouldn't that now make it a BWS? If you remove the pearl what are you left with? They both have the same core, the same weight, the same drilling pattern, and the same badass spider etched onto it.

In closing, think of it this way....if you buy a pearl and the ball is going straight across without grabbing any lane, then your dreams of being Tommy Jones are over. It's time to be Norm Duke or Walter Ray. Make friends with the right gutter because you're gonna be next to it quite a bit.

[BubbaRay]

I agree with you blue and lefthok. I stated in the last topic on coverstocks thatCore ? pin placement has more to do for the ball reaction .

[bluerrpilot]

I second that!!!!! The ball comes out of the factory exactly the way the engineers found it to work the best. It doesn't make too much sense to buy a ball, find it doesn't do what you want it to, then destroy to cover to make it behave.


I do think that altering the cover is a great tool in fine tuning reaction or shape. I do it regularly. I'm just getting tired of hearing people state that cover prep is 80-90% of the ball.

[LeftHook]

Agreed! I think 90% is all mental. Once you have a ball and you get consistent, the lane shouldn't matter. Sanded or polished, the lanes change from day to day and especially minute to minute when playing a league. A sanded ball may work great when you're practicing on the weekend, but whose to say it will help when it counts. Once you are mentally prepared there is nothing that can stop you....unless you open a bar tab...then the fermented hops tend to get in the way quite a bit. It's hard to hit pins that are swaying back and forth.

[bigsexyhammer]

The same theory can be applied to the whole "arsenal" concept. I bet you guys all know that one guy at your alley who carries a solid 200+ avg. and only throws one strike ball? Usually a black or blue Hammer too!

I love watching those masters. Be damned the lane condition, they adjust speed, release, mark, etc. to make the shot.:cool:

[LeftHook]

Yep! I have a guy on my team that has had the same ball for 12 years. I believe it is a Columbia Beast...and it is mangled! But, he does consistently get scores upwards of 190. He would do better if he wasn't hammered (drunk) by the end of the third game. He stands on the right side and throws straight at the pocket- the ball hooks about 4 boards. Sometimes the pins look like they all jump in the air before the ball even gets there. Makes me angry when I get a 160 because I missed a few crucial spares....and he gets a 200 without even trying. I swear he just drops the ball and walks away before it reaches the pins.

[slap]

Ok we've agreed to disagree on this one already but I will present the opposing view to balance the thread.

If the companies ship balls in perfect condition why does...
1. Almost every ball company have surface adjustment info on their website?
2. Many companies sell a variety of surface altering products for use on thier equipment?
3. Most companies recommend the use of scotch brite, wet/dry sand paper, abralon, trizact or abrasive polishes?
4. When contacted for information, why do the companies themselves provide surface adjustment advice?

Research...
1. Ebonite in particular has spent a lot of time (and money) researching the affects of surface on a ball reaction. Why?

Reading
http://www.ebonite.com/techcenter/RandD_detail.php?PRKey=262

2. When a ball is reviewed in BJ or BTM, often several layouts AND surfaces are tried. Why?

Corrections for Lefthook...
1. The proper usage of scotch brite, wet/dry sand paper, abralon, trizact or abrasive polishes will not destory a coverstock. Why would ball companies recommend something that will destory their products?

2. Surface tweaks can narrow or expand a balls flexibility. IMO...This can be very useful when used properly.

3. Sanding a BWP will not make it behave like a BWS.
3b. Sanding a pearl does not remove the pearl, it removes the polish.

Reading

Why Sand a Pearl Ball?
http://www.ebonite.com/techcenter/RandD_detail.php?PRKey=268
Have you ever noticed that several Hammer (i.e. The Real Deal and Big Deal) balls are sanded to 1000 grit Abralon from the factory but appear to have pearl in them?
It has always been thought that a pearl ball is supposed to be polished, and that a solid ball hooks earlier and more than a pearl ball. Ebonite has conducted several tests to help uncover the truth.

The Tests
We took two balls made with the same core, color and reactive coverstock. Of the two balls tested, one was pearlized and one was solid. Both were finished with a 1000 grit Abralon pad and then were thrown ten times each in random order. The information was collected using the C.A.T.S. system and averaged together to come up with the presented data in graph 1.
In looking at graph 1, there is some difference between the two balls. The bowler also confirmed what the data showed. The data suggested that the pearl ball had more backend, was more angular at the breakpoint and had more total boards of hook than the solid ball. One explanation for this is a pearl ball does not expend as much energy in the front part of the lane as a solid ball. As a result, the pearl ball has the ability to recover in the backend part of the lane better than the solid ball when sanded to 1000 grit Abralon. This information helped us decide to sand some of our pearl balls from the factory.
What about a pearl and solid ball that is polished?
In graph 2, we took the same balls and had them polished with Ebonite Powerhouse® Factory Finish. In looking at this graph, there is some difference between the two balls.
The data suggests that a solid polished ball hooks more than a pearl polished ball. Again, the bowler confirmed what the data showed. This is consistent with what most people tend to think. However, it is interesting to note that the polished pearl ball saw friction earlier than the solid ball, allowing it to start hooking sooner. The solid ball retained more energy in the backend of the lane and as a result was more aggressive overall.
The important thing to remember is, it is ok to sand or polish balls to help achieve the desired reaction. In some cases, like the one just illustrated, you can actually get more hook using a sanded pearl ball than a sanded solid ball.


Bonus material.
My BWP experience fits in here. I sent Brian Graham an email for a layout recommendation. In addition to a layout he provided surface advice.
Why? The ball is perfect from the factory right? I didn't send "my ball is going too long email," the ball was NIB.

Further reading
Sammy,
I would recommend a layout that places the pin at 5” from your positive axis point (above the middle finger) with the mass bias about 2” to the left of your thumb hole (since you are left-handed). This will provide more length with plenty of backend reaction. Start with the box finish and adjust the ball surface with a 2000 grit Abralon pad by hand to create stronger hook motion in oil with more controllable breakpoint.

Brian





Brian Graham

Hammer Brand Manager

P.O. Box 746

Hopkinsville, KY 42240

bgraham@hammerbowling.com

[BubbaRay]

The guy who has had the ball for 10+ years might be using anillegal ball. Why you ask might he be using an illegal ball? Well this is something no one really stops and thinks about.
My good friend and fellow pro Joe Hutchinson and I were talking about illegal balls one day. He told me this story and after you think about it makes perfect sense. He was telling me, back in the day of the LT48 when Joe was on tour, there was another pro,( I can't recall his name ) used an LT48 and was scoring like crazy , Joe said if the guy played inside he hit the pocket. If the guy played outside the ball would hit the pocket. He said at one tour stop they challanged the ball . The ball was checked after the squad for hardness, it passed. The ball was weighed for being withing legal limits, the ball passed. Then they took a good look at the track on that ball and found that the track on the ball was worn in on the cover. So not matter how this guy tyhrew the ball it wound up rolling on this track that was worn into the cover. There for it made the ball illegal and the PBA drilled hole on both sides of the ball so it couldn't be used again.

So next time you see that guy who bowls one night a week for the past 10+ years with the same ball think about the track on the ball.

[slap]

The guy who has had the ball for 10+ years might be using anillegal ball. Why you ask might he be using an illegal ball? Well this is something no one really stops and thinks about.
My good friend and fellow pro Joe Hutchinson and I were talking about illegal balls one day. He told me this story and after you think about it makes perfect sense. He was telling me, back in the day of the LT48 when Joe was on tour, there was another pro,( I can't recall his name ) used an LT48 and was scoring like crazy , Joe said if the guy played inside he hit the pocket. If the guy played outside the ball would hit the pocket. He said at one tour stop they challanged the ball . The ball was checked after the squad for hardness, it passed. The ball was weighed for being withing legal limits, the ball passed. Then they took a good look at the track on that ball and found that the track on the ball was worn in on the cover. So not matter how this guy tyhrew the ball it wound up rolling on this track that was worn into the cover. There for it made the ball illegal and the PBA drilled hole on both sides of the ball so it couldn't be used again.

So next time you see that guy who bowls one night a week for the past 10+ years with the same ball think about the track on the ball.

interesting!

[idlehourlegend]

This sounds like a guy that Bubba and I know that bowls in our wednesday night league he uses a 25+ year old plastic ball on medium- heavy oil conditions and can throw the ball 15 to 5 and have it come back to the pocket or tug a ball straight up ten and it holds. It really amazing and all this kinda makes sense now.The guy who has had the ball for 10+ years might be using anillegal ball. Why you ask might he be using an illegal ball? Well this is something no one really stops and thinks about.
My good friend and fellow pro Joe Hutchinson and I were talking about illegal balls one day. He told me this story and after you think about it makes perfect sense. He was telling me, back in the day of the LT48 when Joe was on tour, there was another pro,( I can't recall his name ) used an LT48 and was scoring like crazy , Joe said if the guy played inside he hit the pocket. If the guy played outside the ball would hit the pocket. He said at one tour stop they challanged the ball . The ball was checked after the squad for hardness, it passed. The ball was weighed for being withing legal limits, the ball passed. Then they took a good look at the track on that ball and found that the track on the ball was worn in on the cover. So not matter how this guy tyhrew the ball it wound up rolling on this track that was worn into the cover. There for it made the ball illegal and the PBA drilled hole on both sides of the ball so it couldn't be used again.

So next time you see that guy who bowls one night a week for the past 10+ years with the same ball think about the track on the ball.

[LeftHook]

Haha! Well played, Slap! Thanks for the "corrections"? Well....opinions mostly. As the saying goes "to each his own". This will rage on forever like: Spare ball or no spare ball, 4 step or 5 step approach, free arm swing or muscle, peanut butter or jelly :) I say give me any ball OOB and I'll make it work. Let's think about something else now.....is it possible that companies make all these products just so you'll buy them? Then someone in a magazine endorses it so you'll buy the magazine and then buy the products? Then one day the ball reacts funny, so, oops, have to adjust it again and buy more stuff? Food for thought.

I think we've heard enough of the coverstock for awhile...let's talk about something else...like how do little old ladies get so many strikes.

[Rowdy]

I like to keep every ball at OOB because bigger minds than mine figured out thats what works best for that ball. If I need a change because of lane conditions,I'll go grab a different ball. Haven;t seen much that the BWS and BWP at OOB can't handle. If you're changing the coverstock,aren't you reacting to lane conditions that are already gone? What if you get heavy oil and sand the ball only to show up next week and find almost no oil? Now you've screwed yourself. I think that changing the ball is like trying to pound a large square peg into a small round hole. It just never works out like you wish it would. Leave the ball alone and learn a new shot that'll score on a different lane conditions.

[Stampy79]

Well Rowdy, IMO you are exactly right. Since we all know that everyone of us has the exact same arm swing, same rev rate, same ball speed,same lane conditions, same weather conditions,same oil pattern ,same shoes, height,weight yada,yada,yada ! Anyone seeing where this is going ? Lets face it guys, when you think about it, the reason they do what they do is to sell bowling balls ! They dont give a rats butt about any of us !Its all about the almighty dollar !!!! If anyone believes anything other than that WAKE UP !If they do all the research that has been mentioned before, why do they keep releasing old coverstocks with old cores, just mixed and matched differently ? They dont want to waste that material ! IT COST THEM MONEY TO THROW IT OUT ! We will buy it, why waste it ?



(Shew, I feel better now, and Rowdy, that was not really directed at you personally !)

[Thepainscoming]

I like to keep every ball at OOB because bigger minds than mine figured out thats what works best for that ball. If I need a change because of lane conditions,I'll go grab a different ball. Haven;t seen much that the BWS and BWP at OOB can't handle. If you're changing the coverstock,aren't you reacting to lane conditions that are already gone? What if you get heavy oil and sand the ball only to show up next week and find almost no oil? Now you've screwed yourself. I think that changing the ball is like trying to pound a large square peg into a small round hole. It just never works out like you wish it would. Leave the ball alone and learn a new shot that'll score on a different lane conditions.
Rowdy,i dont think changing the ball is bad. I polished my one heavy oil ball, the paradigm passion because i needed a bit more snap at the end because it was rolling early on me so i polished it and it gave me midlane and backend i think that change worked out for the better. Threw my first 600 with that ball being polished, took care of the 10 pin problem.

[blistershurt]

So that would mean that the people who designed bowling balls knew the lanes you would use it at and your specific style you bowl? That makes no sence. Why do people with high revs polish equipment? To hold lines longer. Why would they sand something? To carve a line maybe, it makes sense to do surface adjustments.

[slap]

I have no problem with opinions, that's part of the appeal of boards like this.

Facts are a different matter. This board is pretty tight, when incorrect information is posted it will be questioned.

[Sin City Hammer]

I'm giving thought to have my BW sanded down a bit, because the lanes at the orleans casino just don't really allow it to really grip the lanes and I feel that it has sacrificed the performance of the BW. And maybe it will be able to let me build alot more confidence in the BW compared to what it is now.

Question is, what would be grit to go down 2 with it? Because I was thinking of going with a 2000 grit. This is my 2nd BW, which I planned to have sanded in time anyway while keeping BW #1 OOB

[Rowdy]

Okay,okay I see you guys point. Hope you feel better now,Stampy:D No offense taken. What I should have added was that for ABOUT 98% of bowlers,OOB is fine. It's the 2% who know what and how to change a coverstock to their advantage that can pull it off correctly. And for the right reasons. That better?

[Stampy79]

YES and thank you ! LOL:D I know what you mean. Most people should just leave them alone for two reasons. 1. They dont know what they are doing and 2. They dont have the right equipment to do it if they did.