Are two-handed bowlers revolutionizing the sport?

[BubbaRay]

Athletes over the years have experimented to gain an edge in their sports.

In the 1960s, track and field star Dick Fosbury invented a new technique by rolling over the bar backwards. The "Fosbury Flop" was so successful that it became the standard method for high jumpers. In tennis, players experimented by hitting backhand shots with both hands on the racquet instead of just one. That gave players more power, and the technique is common practice today.

The sport of bowling also has pioneers. Today, many young athletes worldwide are shunning the traditional one-handed style and using two hands to swing and deliver the ball, giving them incredible rotation and striking power never seen in bowling. Two-handed bowlers swing the ball with both hands by one side of their body as they approach the foul line. Inserting just their fingers or their fingers and thumb of one hand in the ball, they support the ball's weight with the other hand. At the release point, their top hand comes away, and they release and follow through with the gripping hand.

One of those young guns is USBC Team USA member Cassidy Schaub, who will put his two-handed style to the test in the 2007 USBC Masters Oct. 23-28 in Milwaukee. Schaub - who pocketed $10,000 for finishing third in the Open Division of the Panama Invitational Tournament Oct. 3-8 in Panama City, Panama - and the rest of the field of close to 500 of the world's best bowlers will vie for a chance to compete in the live, ESPN-televised finals at Miller Park on Oct. 28 and take home the $100,000 first prize check.

"When I was 5 years old and started bowling I was too little to carry the ball to the line with one hand, so I carried it up there with two," said Schaub, 24, a left-hander from Polk, Ohio, who represented the United States at the 2007 Pan American Games in July in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. "As I started to grow I developed a back swing and footwork to go with my two-handed delivery."

Two-handers such as Schaub use a traditional heel-toe walking approach while others - like Australia's Jason Belmonte and Finland's Osku Palermaa - use a short shuffle step late in the approach to create power and momentum.

Belmonte has won medals at the AMF World Cup and World Youth Federation Internationale des Quilleurs, competed on the European Bowling Tour and rolled 26 perfect games. Palermaa rolled two perfect games on his way to winning the 2006 AMF World Cup in Venezuela.

"I am pretty much a self-taught bowler," said Belmonte, 24, who started bowling in his parents' bowling center in the provincial city of Orange in New South Wales, Australia.

Jaime Foster, 2006 National Collegiate Bowling Coaches Association women's rookie of the year, started bowling with one hand, but learned to bowl with two hands after a shoulder injury in a car accident made it hard to bowl one-handed.

"I learned the style on my own," Foster said. "I put only my two fingers in the ball and don't use my thumb."

Among the younger bowlers to have big success rolling two-handed is Chaz Dennis of Columbus, Ohio. On Dec. 21, 2006, Dennis rolled his way into bowling's record books by becoming the youngest bowler ever to throw a perfect game in USBC competition at age 10 years, 2 months, 27 days. Dennis was 20 days younger than the previous record-holder, Michael Tang of San Francisco.

This style offers bowlers the advantage of generating more hook and power than the traditional one-handed delivery. Because two-handers use one hand to roll the ball and the other to support it, they can keep their bowling hand under the ball longer. That positioning lets them generate extra rotation, hook and power on the ball and more options to play the lanes, which can translate to more strikes and higher scores.

"It allows me to generate a lot of revolutions (spin) on the ball, but it also allows my shoulders to stay square to my target without a lot of extra motion from my off arm," Schaub said.

"More power with less effort," Palermaa said.

The two-handed style is somewhat controversial in the sport of bowling.

"I think the style is intriguing," Belmonte said. "Many people watch my style because they either hate it or love it. So I guess it is bringing a touch of debate back into the game."

To accommodate the new crop of bowlers who are electing to use the two-handed delivery, the USBC Coaching program - which trains and certifies bowling coaches - is researching and developing methods for teaching these athletes.

"The two-handed delivery is a hot trend in bowling today," said Rod Ross, head coach of USBC Junior Team USA, the U.S. junior national bowling team. "These kids do it because it comes naturally to them. This is a style to be reckoned with. It's here to stay."

[Street Racer]

being a aussie... having belmo being a aussie... i'm seeing more and more ppl trying 2 handed(yes i have tired it).... i'm seeing more and more ppl going 2 handed....... not 1 everysingle day... not once a month... but you get what i mean...

yes u do get more carry and pin action... but for how long has bowling been 1 handed for? i'm not againest 2 handed bowling in anyway... its just that if it keeps on going on the sport of tenpin will change.......:confused:

[mongoliantreesloth]

Every sport evolves. Do you use hard rubber balls or have you got a couple of the newer reactives knocking around? (Rhetorical question).

[Street Racer]

Every sport evolves. Do you use hard rubber balls or have you got a couple of the newer reactives knocking around? (Rhetorical question).

lol.... yes... but thats equipment.... i'm pretty sure golf cubs have changed abit? but has how u swing at the ball changed?(idk much about golf but yeah)

i am are talking about how you bowl it... bowling started one handed... why change now? if bowling has been dated back until the roman years?(as i have been told)

[idlehourlegend]

I bowl with two hands. All of the local pros and other people were always trying to get me to go to one hand I tried it and I couldnt make the ball move 4 boards. I just started doing it when I was younger I wasnt tought how to do it. I just went from throwing the ball between my legs when I was really young then I put an approach to it and brought the ball by my side. Like I said I have watched a lot of videos by Osku Palermaa and Jason Belmonte. Stance wise at the line I am more like Osku. I am really glad that I havent changed from it.

[bigj102006]

i would like to see a video of this approach if anyone could post one that would be great. thanks.

Jason

[idlehourlegend]

I tried today and I cant load it to the computer. I am going to get a camcorder in a week or two and then I will post them. I recorded the videos on my digital camera and for some reason it wouldnt connect to the computer.

[Rowdy]

Why not a two handed delivery? Whatever works for you to knock down the pins is what you should use. Everything else about the game has changed numerous times in the 40 years I've been bowling. Why not the delivery? Long as it's legal,and it appears to be,so it's okay with me. I'm still gonna beat 'em though.:cool:

[idlehourlegend]

Why not a two handed delivery? Whatever works for you to knock down the pins is what you should use. Everything else about the game has changed numerous times in the 40 years I've been bowling. Why not the delivery? Long as it's legal,and it appears to be,so it's okay with me. I'm still gonna beat 'em though.:cool:

I wouldnt be so sure about that one!:D

[BubbaRay]

Let me say one thing, I bowl alot with idlehour and when he is locked in he can't be beat, He will throw 270+ all day at you. I have the utmost respect for him and he is only 16. I can't wait till he's older and see how he scores. He has a big future ahead of him in this sport. Hope I'll be retired from this game by then. :D

[idlehourlegend]

Thanks Bubba. You know I wouldnt have thrown a lot of them without you helping me get lined up. As for consistency that is the main thing with this style it is the hardest thing to get down because you have so many things going different ways its hard to stay square and hit that spot consistently and it has taken me a lot of years and a lot of games to get to where I am now. As for you retiring I dont see it happening for a long time you are the only person around here that actually loves the game as much as I do if not more.

[drw02]

good 1 vs 2hand talk on here

http://forum.talktenpin.co.uk/index.php?topic=2289.0

[Stampy79]

I would like to see a video of someone bowling 2 handed

[Thepainscoming]

I would like to see a video of someone bowling 2 handed

Search Osku Palermaa on You tube. The best 2 hander out there.

[idlehourlegend]

Stampy here are two videos one of Osku Palermaa. And one of Jason Belmonte who are two of the best known two handed bowlers in the world. I will try to put videos of me up ASAP.

OSKU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLGpmNjeRrE

Jason
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOU5z2MENag&mode=related&search=

I throw kind of a mix between the two I throw with Jason's speed But Osku's revs not as many though . But I throw the most like Jason.

[drw02]

tommy jones 1hand beat oskus 2hands 3-0 in the weber cup

t.js rev rate was around 550-570
osku rev rate around 600 but he maxed out at "675"

[Thepainscoming]

tommy jones 1hand beat oskus 2hands 3-0 in the weber cup

t.js rev rate was around 550-570
osku rev rate around 600 but he maxed out at "675"
Robert Smith can max out at 650

[BubbaRay]

Smith has one of the highest rev rates on the tour and and has been tracked throwing the ball 34 miles per hour… Can get as many as 27 ball revolutions per shot (average Tour pro throws the ball 18 miles per hour and gets 16 ball revolutions per shot).

[Stampy79]

Ok, in all honesty. How hard will it be to learn to do that ! It really doesnt look hard, but I am sure it will feel very awkward for a long time. Do both of those guys throw a spare ball with the thumb in ? And really the big question is how big a change in my equipment is coming ? (Layouts)

[BubbaRay]

Stampy you are right it doesn't look hard but let me tell you looks are decieving. I tried it for two shots and it isn't easy at all. The ball was in the gutter at the arrows. My body felt like I was some sort of contorsionist and my footwork if I remember I was on my 5th step at the line and the ball was still behind me. I give these guys alot of credit. And spare shooting has to be more difficult that the strike ball. I know Idlehour throws first and second ball with his thumb in the ball. As for change in equipment, their should be any change what soever. You drill the ball the same as you would if using one hand, Good luck trying it and don't hurt yourself. I have to say it will take many months trying this just to be able to reach the 180's.

[idlehourlegend]

Ok, in all honesty. How hard will it be to learn to do that ! It really doesnt look hard, but I am sure it will feel very awkward for a long time. Do both of those guys throw a spare ball with the thumb in ? And really the big question is how big a change in my equipment is coming ? (Layouts)

Believe me its not as easy as they make it look. It is very tough to learn to play angles with all of those revs and making spares with two hands is not easy even with a spare. Equipment wise I just get mine drilled as a normal person with a high rev reate does. It took me a lot of time to master this sort of shot and I still have a lot to learn about. You can just make moves on the approach as you regulary would because you have to get your body at an angle enough to get the ball around you and to hit the mark getting angled up while walking on the approach and hitting the spot all in the 5 secs it takes to walk up the approach is one of the hardest parts.

[xXTwoHanderXx]

Hey im suprised to see that there isnt any other names brought to the forum.
If your looking into videos of these people you can always check them out under google search by typing in their name.
I myself am a two handed bowler, that know of Cassidy Schaub and Jamie Foster, from experience of bowling with both of them in big tournaments. Two handed bowlers had their own style and for some people it works better then others.
I myself am on YouTube, just look up "Derek Roseberry" and there will be a video on there! check me out and hit me up on here sometime

[idlehourlegend]

Hey im suprised to see that there isnt any other names brought to the forum.
If your looking into videos of these people you can always check them out under google search by typing in their name.
I myself am a two handed bowler, that know of Cassidy Schaub and Jamie Foster, from experience of bowling with both of them in big tournaments. Two handed bowlers had their own style and for some people it works better then others.
I myself am on YouTube, just look up "Derek Roseberry" and there will be a video on there! check me out and hit me up on here sometime

Nice, first 2 handed lefty I've seen except me.
I've heard of Cassidy from the USA team, but never heard of Jamie Foster.

[xXTwoHanderXx]

yeh the youtube video was of me trying out that lane 1, tryin to strike lol... i actually threw it the other night b/c the lanes were so dry and shot 288 last game lol..it was pretty funny b/c everyone was watching....... but yeh..... Cassidy is a really good guy, and Jaime is from Texas, bowled Junior Team USA, and all kinds of good stuff.... i went to pikeville college with her last year...and yeh i dont know of many two handed leftys except for one more......... Tony Lambert.....he lives in louisville like me, i grew up watchin him and learning from him....he was the best two hander of his time, prolly 35 now... and likes to go fishin more then bowling now.......good enough to be pro but didnt wanna go pro....was sponsored........aprox. (100) 300 games... same with 800's

[idlehourlegend]

yeh the youtube video was of me trying out that lane 1, tryin to strike lol... i actually threw it the other night b/c the lanes were so dry and shot 288 last game lol..it was pretty funny b/c everyone was watching....... but yeh..... Cassidy is a really good guy, and Jaime is from Texas, bowled Junior Team USA, and all kinds of good stuff.... i went to pikeville college with her last year...and yeh i dont know of many two handed leftys except for one more......... Tony Lambert.....he lives in louisville like me, i grew up watchin him and learning from him....he was the best two hander of his time, prolly 35 now... and likes to go fishin more then bowling now.......good enough to be pro but didnt wanna go pro....was sponsored........aprox. (100) 300 games... same with 800's

I usually just throw my BWC on the dry, thing carries like it has a core....There are no two handers around here at all except me so I had to learn everything by myself about it, everyone around here always acted like I was doing something wrong throwing with 2. Never heard of him but sounds like hes good by the stats.

[hbhammerhead]

Ok, in all honesty. How hard will it be to learn to do that ! It really doesnt look hard, but I am sure it will feel very awkward for a long time. Do both of those guys throw a spare ball with the thumb in ? And really the big question is how big a change in my equipment is coming ? (Layouts)

my friend tried it the other day for the first time and shot a 220 first game :D.
followed by a 186 and then a 211! he wants to pursue the two handed style now lol. i was practicing by myself today and just happened to be bowling next to a coach who had a student that rolled two handed. he was pretty good and created a really powerful ball with two hands. i still like using one hand maybe someday i will try out the two hand style.


if you knew how to roll two handed could you change in the middle of a game from one handed to two handed?

[idlehourlegend]

my friend tried it the other day for the first time and shot a 220 first game :D.
followed by a 186 and then a 211! he wants to pursue the two handed style now lol. i was practicing by myself today and just happened to be bowling next to a coach who had a student that rolled two handed. he was pretty good and created a really powerful ball with two hands. i still like using one hand maybe someday i will try out the two hand style.


if you knew how to roll two handed could you change in the middle of a game from one handed to two handed?

Yes you can, as long as the ball is in the same hand as before you can go to two hands, the USBC will probably be making a rule to stop this soon switching soon seeing 2 hands is getting so popular, but from what I understand as long as you arent switching hands then its fine.

[Rowdy]

Yes you can, as long as the ball is in the same hand as before you can go to two hands, the USBC will probably be making a rule to stop this soon switching soon seeing 2 hands is getting so popular, but from what I understand as long as you arent switching hands then its fine.

Since you're changing your delivery,wouldn't you have to abide by the rules about switching hands? Carry two averages,one for one handed and one for two handed,etc???

[idlehourlegend]

Since you're changing your delivery,wouldn't you have to abide by the rules about switching hands? Carry two averages,one for one handed and one for two handed,etc???

Honestly Im not sure here, I kinda doubt the USBC has a rule set for this because 2 handed is so new to the sport, but Im sure they'll be making one soon. The only way to really find out is to call/email.

[Rowdy]

Honestly Im not sure here, I kinda doubt the USBC has a rule set for this because 2 handed is so new to the sport, but Im sure they'll be making one soon. The only way to really find out is to call/email.

You do it. I'm tired of the USBC weasels who either can't or won't answer a question.

[blistershurt]

i get free bowling all summer at my home lanes and I'm getting better at 2 handing, but I cant make enough wrist position changes, so far I can only do 2 and they're so radically different that one makes the ball go completely straight and the other makes the ball overhook most of the time.

Two handing is tough work for sure, although I'm starting to learn to do a freeswing with it and throw harder, its fun to do, but not easy to do well.

[acvar]

Since you're changing your delivery,wouldn't you have to abide by the rules about switching hands? Carry two averages,one for one handed and one for two handed,etc???

No. Basically you are still using just 1 hand under the rules you just leave your off hand on the ball much longer then most. It is impossible to regulate how long you leave your off hand on the ball, and it would be foolish for the USBC to try. That does not mean they wont do it unfortunatly.

[BubbaRay]

I wouldn't be suprised if the USBC triesd and put some regulations on equipment for 2 handed bowlers. I also think it's impossible to do because the 2 handed bowlers put so much power and revs on the ball , all of them I have seen can make any non cored plasctic ball hook.

Watch in a few years the amount of two handed bowlers coming to light. Alot of 1 handed bowlers will be switching.

[xXTwoHanderXx]

You wanna see a spare ball hook and strike like any other normal ball... check out my video on youtube... look up "Derek Roseberry" and tell me what you think!

[idlehourlegend]

You wanna see a spare ball hook and strike like any other normal ball... check out my video on youtube... look up "Derek Roseberry" and tell me what you think!

Thats not a spare ball its a dry lane ball, it has the diamond core in it.

[xXTwoHanderXx]

well same thing.........it strikes, it makes 7 pins...what more do you want??!!

[can-ham]

You wanna see a spare ball hook and strike like any other normal ball... check out my video on youtube... look up "Derek Roseberry" and tell me what you think!

Wanna see people watch your video? Post a link to it. :p

It's the internet and I'm lazy, but I will watch it if you post the link

[hbhammerhead]

You wanna see a spare ball hook and strike like any other normal ball... check out my video on youtube... look up "Derek Roseberry" and tell me what you think!

that ball hooks a lot rolling it with one hand...but nice video

[TenPinSniper]

Wanna see people watch your video? Post a link to it. :p

It's the internet and I'm lazy, but I will watch it if you post the link

QFT... linkage! We want Linkage! We want it now, where do we want it, here!

[BubbaRay]

That video on You Tube is basicall an advertisement. But he does throw an impressive ball.

[blistershurt]

Lane 1 has made a few plastic balls with cores, my driller throws the XXXL and killed the house at a 9 pin tourney last Friday

[jhufstedler]

I remember when I started bowling, if you used two hands, you was throwing granny style between your legs down the lane. As kids got older, they bowled with one hand. As for me, my opinion on two-handed bowling. I feel it shouldn't be allowed. To me it just proves they are not talented enough to bowl with one hand. It takes more skill to bowl with one hand. The two handed style generates a lot of revs, some people can turn the ball plenty with one hand. I am not a high rev player although my rev rate has increased over the years and I have learned control of my rev rate depending on lane conditions. I guess in some ways two hands in bowling is a form of cheating. Some may agree, some might disagree. You want to beat me, beat me with one hand.

[blistershurt]

I throw with one hand usually, and I play with two hands in practice.
I CHALLENGE you to go to practice and shoot well two handing, try to adjust to dry lanes and pick spares. I dont think you'll be able to do it all that well. It is hard to do and is a style

[idlehourlegend]

I remember when I started bowling, if you used two hands, you was throwing granny style between your legs down the lane. As kids got older, they bowled with one hand. As for me, my opinion on two-handed bowling. I feel it shouldn't be allowed. To me it just proves they are not talented enough to bowl with one hand. It takes more skill to bowl with one hand. The two handed style generates a lot of revs, some people can turn the ball plenty with one hand. I am not a high rev player although my rev rate has increased over the years and I have learned control of my rev rate depending on lane conditions. I guess in some ways two hands in bowling is a form of cheating. Some may agree, some might disagree. You want to beat me, beat me with one hand.

haha I love people like this. Go try and shoot 150 with 2 hands and then come back and say this please. Look at it this way, you use finger grips? Yea?, then your cheating because they help you make the ball hook. In the old days they didnt have or need grips to make the ball turn and I dont use them. The game is evolving and you old timers need to realize this, its not cheating because our fingers are still in the holes just like anyone elses just we leave the other hand on it, theres nothing wrong with it and its not cheating. As for not being talented enough, I could dump the ball on the lane just like most of you low rev one handers and score just fine, its not the point, every single guy that you see that throws 2 handed is very athletic (belmo, osku, cassidy) and none of them are overweight at all like a ton of 1 handers, so what does that show you? You have to be athletic and talented to do it and do it well. Yea when I was younger around 11-12, I threw one and two handed and average the same with both, just one handed was straight down 10 and made it way too easy IMO and I hated it so I stuck with what I liked more and felt I could stick with and do a lot better and have a lot more fun doing it. Im sorry if I offended anyone with this post, wasnt meant to do that, just trying to get the point across to guys like this that want the game to stay where it was 20 years ago, and do it "the right way".

[blistershurt]

Idle you're right about the part about two handers being more athletic, my brother is overweight and he cant get balance at the line throwing two handed, where as I can.

As the old timers say "The name of the game is adjustments" not "throwing one handed"

[idlehourlegend]

Idle you're right about the part about two handers being more athletic, my brother is overweight and he cant get balance at the line throwing two handed, where as I can.

As the old timers say "The name of the game is adjustments" not "throwing one handed"

Exactly and Im glad you understand where Im coming from with it, the games changing in a lot of different ways, I say do it to the best of your ability no matter how that is, as long as all the pins fall down thats what matters.

[blistershurt]

Yeah I know, its not like you get to spray the ball on a sport shot either, you still have to be accurate, on house shots everyone has a large margin for error, but I know you can just miss your mark on a sport shot and have it strike, so you still are like everyone else...your style just garners more attention, especially lately.

Personally, I love two handers, they're so fun to watch, and its fun to do if you can get it right (i'm pretty decent at it, next time I film I might do a two handed shot for you guys :D). I found all of my release last night and I'm happy, I have enough revs to last me now.

[idlehourlegend]

Yeah I know, its not like you get to spray the ball on a sport shot either, you still have to be accurate, on house shots everyone has a large margin for error, but I know you can just miss your mark on a sport shot and have it strike, so you still are like everyone else...your style just garners more attention, especially lately.

Personally, I love two handers, they're so fun to watch, and its fun to do if you can get it right (i'm pretty decent at it, next time I film I might do a two handed shot for you guys :D). I found all of my release last night and I'm happy, I have enough revs to last me now.

Yea exactly see have to hit the spot and be accurate, yea I have a room on a house shot but just as much as everyone else does, it doesnt make it any easier, yea it gives you revs easier but actually makes the game itself harder in some aspects, its not easy to keep your head on the mark when you have both hands going in the front of your body and having to follow through with both, that parts takes years. Yea it might be easy to throw two hands (for a few people), but its very hard to be good and accurate with it.

Yes they are, only got to watch myself once on video, but I love watching jason and osku bowl. Glad you got everything back in your game and can tell by those scores you put up.

[blistershurt]

For me when I'm throwing two handed, I'm pretty decent at following through and hitting my mark (I actually two handed a couple of strikes in PBAex league yesterday) I get into trouble with turning on the ball too soon at times, it takes some getting used to staying behind it, it seems like you stay behind it longer than on a one handed shot.

[BubbaRay]

it seems like you stay behind it longer than on a one handed shot.


This is true because your other hand in front or side of the ball is stopping your hand that's in the ball from breaking your wrist back . This way you can't help but stay behind it longer, which is a a very good thing.
And just for the record If I could have a 2 handed bowler on all of my teams I would. But Idle isn't available every night. :(

[blistershurt]

Last night even after I figured out the release I've been working on since the stone age, it still seems like I stay behind it longer with two hands, maybe its just because I snap off the ball hard when I throw two hands

[idlehourlegend]

This is true because your other hand in front or side of the ball is stopping your hand that's in the ball from breaking your wrist back . This way you can't help but stay behind it longer, which is a a very good thing.
And just for the record If I could have a 2 handed bowler on all of my teams I would. But Idle isn't available every night. :(

Yea Bubba is totally correct with that.

Wish I could be Bubba. BTW How are Mondays looking for next year?

[Rowdy]

I remember when I started bowling, if you used two hands, you was throwing granny style between your legs down the lane. As kids got older, they bowled with one hand. As for me, my opinion on two-handed bowling. I feel it shouldn't be allowed. To me it just proves they are not talented enough to bowl with one hand. It takes more skill to bowl with one hand. The two handed style generates a lot of revs, some people can turn the ball plenty with one hand. I am not a high rev player although my rev rate has increased over the years and I have learned control of my rev rate depending on lane conditions. I guess in some ways two hands in bowling is a form of cheating. Some may agree, some might disagree. You want to beat me, beat me with one hand.

I was gonna go off on this one untill I saw where he was from. Alabama,it figures. Centuries of tradition unhampered by progress.

[BubbaRay]

Yea Bubba is totally correct with that.

Wish I could be Bubba. BTW How are Mondays looking for next year?

Not to good so far.

[idlehourlegend]

Not to good so far.

Might have a spot, we're not sure if that Tuesday league is gonna work out, so once we get the word on that to see how it is, if it might not work then we're gonna work on Monday, your more than welcome to join us, just have to see what happens with Tuesdays.

[Thepainscoming]

hey jhufstedler, do u use the new bowling balls??? if so they ur cheating also.

[Dave34]

If I could throw it 2 handed, I would. I just lack balance and athleticism, lol.

[jhufstedler]

Go Ahead and Rip Away Rowdy.... I may live in Alabama but I started bowling up north.

As for me using inserts, no I do not use any inserts. I do not like how they feel. I feel like I am loosing my feeling of the ball with inserts in. Therefore I never use them.

I would never attempt to bowl with two hands due to the fact I have two bad legs that I sometimes have trouble walking on as is. Poor circulation. Still, a fairly decent bowler.

I may have over steeped on the cheating bit, and I apologize on that part. But the two handed style to me is a bit unorthodoxed. To me it has no place in competitive bowling. It's almost like saying in Football, oh you can't kick a field goal, but when you get the ball you can throw it through the upright instead and it will count as field goal.

[blistershurt]

...I have bad legs(I have days where I have to use crutches to walk because of how bad my legs get, I might already have arthritis). I have TERRIBLE legs(already had one surgery on my sliding leg and more to come, I'm 16) . I probably will need knee replacement somewhere along the lines, you just choose not to throw 2 handed, it is hard to control, and it does make the game harder in some aspects (spare shooting definitely).

Two handing is like the Australian kickers in the NFL.
There are the kickers who kick it through the uprights with their shoes ON and then there's the Aussie kickers who dont use shoes, that is a MUCH better comparison than just going outright and being jealous and calling them cheaters (which your analogy basically did)

[Rowdy]

Go Ahead and Rip Away Rowdy.... I may live in Alabama but I started bowling up north.

As for me using inserts, no I do not use any inserts. I do not like how they feel. I feel like I am loosing my feeling of the ball with inserts in. Therefore I never use them.

So what??? Your choice.

I would never attempt to bowl with two hands due to the fact I have two bad legs that I sometimes have trouble walking on as is. Poor circulation. Still, a fairly decent bowler.

We all have aches and pains. I've got a back that's been cut on twice and I can't feel my feet at all. But we choose to compete knowing we're never at 100%. Don't use it as an excuse.

I may have over steeped on the cheating bit, and I apologize on that part. But the two handed style to me is a bit unorthodoxed. To me it has no place in competitive bowling. It's almost like saying in Football, oh you can't kick a field goal, but when you get the ball you can throw it through the upright instead and it will count as field goal.

So two handed looks different. So what??? There's nothing in the Rules prohibiting it,so it's a legal delivery. Therefore,if there's a problem with it,it lies with you. What happens when you roll against a lefty,do you make them switch hands and roll from the right???

To say that a two handed delivery has no place in any form of bowling is the MOST assinine statement that has ever been posted on this forum. And belive me,you had to go some to win that title.

[idlehourlegend]

Go Ahead and Rip Away Rowdy.... I may live in Alabama but I started bowling up north.

As for me using inserts, no I do not use any inserts. I do not like how they feel. I feel like I am loosing my feeling of the ball with inserts in. Therefore I never use them.

I would never attempt to bowl with two hands due to the fact I have two bad legs that I sometimes have trouble walking on as is. Poor circulation. Still, a fairly decent bowler.

I may have over steeped on the cheating bit, and I apologize on that part. But the two handed style to me is a bit unorthodoxed. To me it has no place in competitive bowling. It's almost like saying in Football, oh you can't kick a field goal, but when you get the ball you can throw it through the upright instead and it will count as field goal.

I agree with Rowdy here thats so assinine. And yea there have been a lot of those statements on here. Now, as for something being unorthodoxed doesnt mean it doesnt belong in the sport, its just doing it a different way, I've been putting up with people saying I've been doing it "wrong" and "the wrong way" since I was young, but now I can beat every last one of them and almost all of them have taken back those statements that they've said about me bowling that way, I've been proving people wrong about this style since I was small. And when I go to PBA expierience tournaments/regular tournaments I get told how consistent I am and how great it is to see someone like that bowling and asking how I started and people are so happy and so interested with it and I personally talk to everyone of them and tell them the stories and help anyone I can and to hear people like this just gets really old.

[Paul1979]

I always play with just one hand and can generate up to 500 revs.

However I have tried playing two handed a couple of times and also one handed without having the thumb in the ball and to me the reaction I get are almost the same.

I think I am more of a power player and even one handed I can keep my hand under the ball in the swing all the time and have an almost infinate number of realeases and ball positions.

When I bowl one handed I will get alot more flare on the ball and it hooker harder and sooner, when bowling two handed the ball has a bigger track point and never seems to flare and will skid miles then hook at a right angle.

What would cause that?

I personally love to see two handers play.

I have actually seen a very very strange two handed bowling style on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOij1prDhmI

How can he do this?

[idlehourlegend]

I always play with just one hand and can generate up to 500 revs.

However I have tried playing two handed a couple of times and also one handed without having the thumb in the ball and to me the reaction I get are almost the same.

I think I am more of a power player and even one handed I can keep my hand under the ball in the swing all the time and have an almost infinate number of realeases and ball positions.

When I bowl one handed I will get alot more flare on the ball and it hooker harder and sooner, when bowling two handed the ball has a bigger track point and never seems to flare and will skid miles then hook at a right angle.

What would cause that?

I personally love to see two handers play.

I have actually seen a very very strange two handed bowling style on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOij1prDhmI

How can he do this?

Ok, its probably because when you throw 2 handed your track gets inverted a lot because of the other hand and I know with mine atleast it brings it very close to the thumb hole. Now my gf's dad is a lefty and lets me throw some of his stuff drilled for his PAP not mine and when I throw it it moves a few boards but like nothing at all because its not drilled for me it just skids really far.

I have also watched that video a lot to figured it out, only thing I can figure is that he pumps the ball back and forth twice and runs to the line to get as much momentum as possible without having a backswing, then just flips his hands around to get the revs.

[blistershurt]

I always play with just one hand and can generate up to 500 revs.

However I have tried playing two handed a couple of times and also one handed without having the thumb in the ball and to me the reaction I get are almost the same.

I think I am more of a power player and even one handed I can keep my hand under the ball in the swing all the time and have an almost infinate number of realeases and ball positions.

When I bowl one handed I will get alot more flare on the ball and it hooker harder and sooner, when bowling two handed the ball has a bigger track point and never seems to flare and will skid miles then hook at a right angle.

What would cause that?

I personally love to see two handers play.

I have actually seen a very very strange two handed bowling style on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOij1prDhmI

How can he do this?

I'm laughing so hard at that video right now...he looks like the little kids who arent strong enough to hold the ball and who it is their first time bowling...jeez...

[Paul1979]

lol yea it really confuses the heck outta me when I try to figure it out though. :eek:

[jhufstedler]

Ok I have to go against my earlier post. Maybe in todays world of heavy oil, maybe two handers are better. They generate a lot more revs which will allow the ball to get through the oil better. We were suppose to be bowling on the Viper last night, there was so no ball movement at all. I finally found a way to get the ball to move, but couldn't do it consistantly. Those who had the higher rev rates were able to get some ball movement, but I had to slow way down, approach and ball speed, to get the ball to move. When I did everything right together, the ball hit like a mack truck. If I was the least bit faster with the ball or my approach, the ball didn't recover. Some of the two finger bowlers were having the best luck with ball movement last night. Lanes seem like they just dumped the oil on the lanes, no consistancy with the viper pattern at all. Bowling is a learning sport, and that is why we challenge ourselfs.

[blistershurt]

That's jealousy setting in, if the two handers are doing well on PBA/sport shots, they're being just as accurate to be honest, they just get to play a different area on the lane, they dont get any more slack when it comes to margin of error

Not being able to get the ball to move consistently is you being inaccurate, not the two handers messing up the lane or whatever.

[jhufstedler]

No two hand bowlers were bowling. Just one handed two finger bowlers. I am not jealous by no means of a two handed bowler. Not jealous of high rev players. I have taught myself over the years to adjust my hand position and how much I turn the ball. I know I have a lot more revs on the ball now than I did 10 years ago, heck 5 years for that matter. I am using the PBA league to learn, find some of my faults in my own game, so I can focus on becoming a better bowler for myself. I love to watch people bowl well, no matter how they throw the ball. There is one kid in the junior pba league that is trying to use two hands, when he throws with one he is more accurate, just doesn't have a lot of ball movement. He does generate a lot of revs when he throws with 2. I have watched and listen to him. Gave him a few pointers, but never once tried to deter him from using two hands. After the USBC ruled that the two handed delivery was a legal delivery, I was like two handed delivery? what is that? I hadn't heard of it nor seen it in action until I seen the young man from Australia and then the junior bowler in the junior pba league.

[idlehourlegend]

No two hand bowlers were bowling. Just one handed two finger bowlers. I am not jealous by no means of a two handed bowler. Not jealous of high rev players. I have taught myself over the years to adjust my hand position and how much I turn the ball. I know I have a lot more revs on the ball now than I did 10 years ago, heck 5 years for that matter. I am using the PBA league to learn, find some of my faults in my own game, so I can focus on becoming a better bowler for myself. I love to watch people bowl well, no matter how they throw the ball. There is one kid in the junior pba league that is trying to use two hands, when he throws with one he is more accurate, just doesn't have a lot of ball movement. He does generate a lot of revs when he throws with 2. I have watched and listen to him. Gave him a few pointers, but never once tried to deter him from using two hands. After the USBC ruled that the two handed delivery was a legal delivery, I was like two handed delivery? what is that? I hadn't heard of it nor seen it in action until I seen the young man from Australia and then the junior bowler in the junior pba league.


How it started for both me and Jason (young man from Australia), is we were brought into the sport very early for me it was 3 years old, Jasons family owned a bowling alley in Australia and he grew up there with his parents and grandparents so he started very early too, when we started we started throwing the ball through our legs, then we put an approach to it and brought the ball with the 2 hands to our side inside of keeping it through our legs because at the time we didnt have the strength to do it with one hand cause we were so young. So thats how it starts, then after doing it for so long before your strong enough to do it 1 handed you stick with it cause its what your best with. Not very complicated if you think about it.

[TenPinSniper]

Do I think it has Revolutionized the game? Not really. It not like everyone is using it like Urethane, Resin or Particle or the Core. Synthetic Lanes, etc...

It just one of those Fad's right Idle? ;) Like the Internet.

The Rev difference between these two handers and say Tommy Jones, Robert Smith is not a ton... around 10%ish. What kinda revs do the two finger guys get, has to be up there as well. Honestly if you can score who cares, how it delivered. Know a Full Roller who used two fingers.

For one most of the bowlers that are good with this style release the ball off one hand, thats why its not illegal. The opposing hand releases first, per the USBC's study. Now the video above who knows. So that why the can shot spares with one hand if they wish.

[blistershurt]

It sure SOUNDS like you're jealous though, otherwise you wouldnt be complaining about then, it doesnt give them an unfair advantage. Its like saying, "HEY THAT GUY IS HAS A BETTER RELEASE THAN ME, ITS CHEATING BECAUSE IT LOOKS DIFFERENT!"

Two handing is like PDW when he came into the PBA, its rocking the boat right now, it will become normal soon enough, especially as the USBC keeps adding more and more oil requirements.

[idlehourlegend]

Do I think it has Revolutionized the game? Not really. It not like everyone is using it like Urethane, Resin or Particle or the Core. Synthetic Lanes, etc...

It just one of those Fad's right Idle? ;) Like the Internet.

The Rev difference between these two handers and say Tommy Jones, Robert Smith is not a ton... around 10%ish. What kinda revs do the two finger guys get, has to be up there as well. Honestly if you can score who cares, how it delivered. Know a Full Roller who used two fingers.

For one most of the bowlers that are good with this style release the ball off one hand, thats why its not illegal. The opposing hand releases first, per the USBC's study. Now the video above who knows. So that why the can shot spares with one hand if they wish.

Yea just one of those things like the MP3 player, it happens.

No, its just getting a lot of publicity now because more people are doing it and trying it and people are figuring out how good it works. I know Belmo's been doing it for 20 some years and I've been doing it 14 so its not like its brand new.

[TenPinSniper]

I had a youth bowler that was doing the two handed spin in bumpers. He put the ball in the gutter everytime between the arrows and range finders. When he moved up this last fall.

Sat down and asked him if he wanted to keep rolling two handed or switch to one handed. (Was actually interested to see if I could coach the two handed method with him, but he wanted to switch.) Did not want to force something on him, I told him that I knew someone who I could consult, with as issues came up, along with watching video's...

We worked on the one handed method for a while, every now and then he would revert back. So I asked if he would like to try working on the two handed method, even talked about some of the basic I noticed with him. We'll see how it goes this fall if he bowls again.

[idlehourlegend]

I had a youth bowler that was doing the two handed spin in bumpers. He put the ball in the gutter everytime between the arrows and range finders. When he moved up this last fall.

Sat down and asked him if he wanted to keep rolling two handed or switch to one handed. (Was actually interested to see if I could coach the two handed method with him, but he wanted to switch.) Did not want to force something on him, I told him that I knew someone who I could consult, with as issues came up, along with watching video's...

We worked on the one handed method for a while, every now and then he would revert back. So I asked if he would like to try working on the two handed method, even talked about some of the basic I noticed with him. We'll see how it goes this fall if he bowls again.

Thats cool, let me know if you need any help or if you run into any problems with the little guy, would be happy to help with anything you need.

[blistershurt]

Bwhahaha...when my niece starts bowling (she has a little, but not like in a league, she's still a little too young) I'm gonna teach her to two hand

[idlehourlegend]

Bwhahaha...when my niece starts bowling (she has a little, but not like in a league, she's still a little too young) I'm gonna teach her to two hand

Its a better idea to start them out early if they want to do it, but I wouldnt push her into it, show her videos of both styles and see which one she would like. Her enjoying the sport is the big thing.

[blistershurt]

She's too little to really bowl right now, I gotta wait another year I think before she'd really get into it big time, but i know that she really likes it when the ball hooks XD

[Hammerhead2]

Its funny, she laughs like no tomorrow when the pins go, BOOM lol :p

[agroves]

I don't think they are revolutionizing the sport, but they are having an affect. Heck, even WRW two hands every now and again.:D

My son is 4. I've never tried to teach him anything. I bought him a Maxim and turned him loose. Two handing it is natural to him. He struggles to keep the ball on the lane, b/c he actually over hooks a maxim. He does pretty well when there is alot of carrydown to help him out.

I'm not going to try and change it either, even tho I don't completely understand all the mechanics of it. I'm sure if I watched it on video a few times, I could see the proper technique.

[idlehourlegend]

I don't think they are revolutionizing the sport, but they are having an affect. Heck, even WRW two hands every now and again.:D

My son is 4. I've never tried to teach him anything. I bought him a Maxim and turned him loose. Two handing it is natural to him. He struggles to keep the ball on the lane, b/c he actually over hooks a maxim. He does pretty well when there is alot of carrydown to help him out.

I'm not going to try and change it either, even tho I don't completely understand all the mechanics of it. I'm sure if I watched it on video a few times, I could see the proper technique.

Thats great to hear and great that your not going to change it and your going to let him do it his own way, you wont be dissapointed. If you need any help at all or info about the 2 hands or anything at all about it, feel free to PM me.

[idlehourlegend]

:D Also another plus with this technique is we can stick and hop a foot straight up in the air and still strike.:p

[Curacao_Dejavu]

I saw that yesterday on espn.

I thought I saw him on you tube in another tournament, I am not sure though.
His release is different from the one that I saw on you tube, almost normal with the left hand on the ball.
the the other one was exaggerated, like hold a baseball bat but lower.

anyway he was throwing real smooth.

Leopold

[idlehourlegend]

I saw that yesterday on espn.

I thought I saw him on you tube in another tournament, I am not sure though.
His release is different from the one that I saw on you tube, almost normal with the left hand on the ball.
the the other one was exaggerated, like hold a baseball bat but lower.

anyway he was throwing real smooth.

Leopold

He bowls a ton of tournaments so you could have.
Yea he always bowls that way and is really smooth, I think I know the one your talking about, he like throws the ball from his chest.

[Curacao_Dejavu]

not the one wobbeling like a duck !! :)

[Curacao_Dejavu]

:D Also another plus with this technique is we can stick and hop a foot straight up in the air and still strike.:p

My team captain does this too.
strangely enough , he sticks, hates the shot, but it's with this sticking thing he strikes a lot during the last 6 months.
obviously we tease we when he misses his shot on a normal release, telling him we should have stuck and hop.

Leopold

[idlehourlegend]

not the one wobbeling like a duck !! :)

Yea thats more or less what it looks like, I believe in the video the kid leave a 7-10.

[Da Hamma]

There is a few 2-handed bowlers in my Saturday nite league and one especially carries a 210+ average consistently. He can also bowl the one-handed way but all his averages are 2 handed. He is also one of the most generous persons I know. He has given alot of balls away, particularly to my son Jake. Demographically impossible for him to go pro.:)