2nd ball advice

[icawn]

hi guys. i'm feeling ready for a 2nd ball, especially with xmas coming.

the lanes around here are medium oil. my toxic is just too powerful for them. if i bowl normally, i will brooklyn all day. i feel as if i have to put too much effort into getting the ball to hit the pocket. i dont feel i should have to stand so far left and throw it so far right to have a chance. i have tried to utilize the extra oil in the middle of the lane also but it is too inconsistent. i have tried cupping the ball less, it does work but it doesn't feel natural and i don't like it. my typical speed is 14-15mph. i can force it to go about 16.5mph, and it does increase the length a bit of course, but i can't be doing that. i have bowled about 60 games now on my toxic. i have bowled immediately after leagues have ended (there's still some oil left), as well as a day after they've been oiled. in either case, i've bowled every which way and the ball is just too strong. if only the ball would go a bit longer before breaking. i've considered polish but i'm not too familiar with it, and i'm not interested in constant upkeep of polish. i bathe my ball after every outing and it hits the same as the first time i threw it.

so anyway the ball is drilled for length and flip. i do like how it reacts, i just wish the lanes here were a better match. i was looking at the vibes and i see how the blue vibe breaks earlier than the cherry. so i would suspect i'd like the cherry more. but after watching many videos of both of them, i wonder if both of those balls are also too strong. those are some mean vibes. thanks for the advice.

[Daorge]

I would try giving it some polish. That should allow it to get down a little further before making the turn. That way since your already familiar with how the toxic reacts, it will be similar just going a little longer.

[icawn]

i could try some polish before buying a new ball. i prefer not to polish but i have a few questions about it. i know nothing about polishing bowling balls.

can i use my maguires liquid car wax/polish? can i go down to the hardware store and buy any polish? or do i have to specifically buy polish, likely online, made for bowling balls? and how much does it wear off while bowling? i heard it's not legal in leagues as well.. ?

thanks:)

[Daorge]

First off, I wouldnt use any car polish on a bowling ball. Your easiest option is to take it to your local pro shop, it should take them all of a few seconds to get the ball polished. Mine doesn't even charge for polishing, If they do, it would be under 5 dollars most likely. I re-polish before every season.

And im not sure where you got your info but i've never heard of anything about polished balls not being legal.

[icawn]

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art18854.asp

that site talks about cleaners and polish. i think it's an aging article though, so i was curious.

The proshop guy and I don't get along well after I politely told him he botched my drilling span and thumb hole. So i don't think i can get any polish from him lol. Can you recommend any decent brand of polish, preferably not the most expensive?

[aigaios]

Polished balls are legal. Your local pro shop will polish it up for you for a minimal fee.

[Daorge]

Whether you like his drilling or not, im pretty sure he will polish your ball. Hes in it for a business after all.

However, I like Black Magic's polish, you can find some over at buddiesproshop or bowling.com

I still recommend having the proshop do it so you get an even polish on the ball. (or if you have a spinner).

Also, cleaners and polishes will generally state whether they are approved or not.

[icawn]

thanks for the tips. i'll take the ball in today. you said you get it polished before every season? so after about how many games would you say the polish lasts?

[Daorge]

Well I get my balls resurfaced after every season as well, Generally 100-150 games. Thats when I get polish put on as well.

[Mike_N_Nashville]

To get the reaction out of my No Mercy Beat'n I wanted I had to have it polished and I also take lessons every other week from a USBC coach.

Per his recommendation I clean my ball after every night of bowling (1 league/week 3 game set, 2 practice nights usually 6 game sets), use the Ebonite Hook Again kit and powerhouse polish to clean and polish once every month, and then every 3 months take it into the pro shop and have them polish it.

This may be overkill, but it has kept my ball reacting the way I want and he has been voted one of the top 100 coaches the last three years in a row so I'm not going to argue with him. :)

Mike

[icawn]

that's a good comparison for me. i'm not in a league but i bowl 2-3 times per week and usually do about ~16 games per week.

doesn't cleaning the ball take off the polish? after i get done bowling i get the dish soap and scrub it good, and sometimes i leave it sit for hours in the soap water. it always hooks like a champ (even though i want less hook lol)

[Mike_N_Nashville]

I don't get enough hand in the ball (if that is the correct phrase) :) to want mine to hook less yet. LOL

I get a good reaction and am very pleased with how my ball rolls, but know that it can do so much more more.

I routinely see people playing lines 10 boards, or more, deeper than mine but that is certainly not me.

[dw800seeker]

Polishing is fine, but I think you should get a second ball. Keep the Toxic like it is and then have second ball drilled to go longer. When the Toxic is too much ball you go to the second ball.

BTW: I had my Toxic polished up a few weeks ago and I believe the proshop uses a kind of car polish. I am not sure what kind though.

[Daorge]

Yes, cleaning it will eventually wear the polish down. Thats why you get it repolished about every 100 games.

I'm not 100% on this but I think the dawn dishsoup (or similar) will strip polish faster than a standard cleaner.

I suggest looking into some Ebonite Energizer cleaner or the Ebonite Power Wash cleaner.

Can anyone else verify that?

[kurmie]

the only thing regarding polishing a ball that would be illegal, would be altering the surface of the ball during competition. You could polish it before or after, but not during. Only cleaning (with certian cleaners) is allowed during comp.

[Dado]

i would suggest getting a second ball... if you polish the toxic then it will not work as well when you need it too be as strong as it is. i would suggest a cherry vibe or something similar. its a lower price ball to so thats always nice.

[mongoliantreesloth]

can i use my maguires liquid car wax/polish?
I was told never to use car polish because they mostly contain wax which clogs the pores and makes every ball behave like a White Dot.

[icawn]

yea ill be getting a 2nd ball for xmas. but as far as polish, i've been looking at the ebonite line.


on the ebonite website, according to their directions:

powerhouse extender polish: apply first
powerhouse factory finish polish: apply after you've applied the extender polish




found these ebonite variations on ebay:

EXTENDER POLISH
http://cgi.ebay.com/EBONITE-Powerhouse-EXTENDER-POLISH-for-bowling-ball_W0QQitemZ260181514288QQihZ016QQcategoryZ11125 5QQcmdZViewItem

Length – Increasing
Backend – Decreasing
Overall Hook – Decreasing




MAGIC SHINE? This isn't on the Ebonite site..
http://cgi.ebay.com/EBONITE-Powerhouse-Magic-Shine-for-all-bowling-balls_W0QQitemZ260181511754QQihZ016QQcategoryZ1112 55QQcmdZViewItem

Length – Increasing
Backend – Increasing
Overall Hook – No change



Just my guess, but i think i'd want increased length with NO decrease in backend, which means i'd want the Magic Shine instead of the Extender Polish. but Magic Shine is not on the ebonite website. i guess they stopped supplying it? to me, it seems silly to discontinue this product if it can increase length without decreasing backend power altogether.. any thoughts?

also, anyone have better results from using a polish-towel rather than a regular cloth towel?

[TenPinSniper]

Here is the deal with polishing it can be applied before or after any sancationed competition, just not during the event. That would be illegal.
Here is the list of accpetable cleaners and such from the USBC:
http://www.bowl.com/specs/ballCleaner.aspx

The Toxic is factory polsihed from Ebonite/Hammer. The surface is 4000 Abralon Polish. They use Factory Finish Polish.

Polishing is best accomplished with a ball spinner, because you can heat generated really make the ball shine. Ball spinners generally do a better than Haus orCooksphere Machines.

Personally, I will repolish the ball anytime I notice dulling in the track. If you ball is over hooking, maybe the Extender Polish would be good for you. Especially since you are bowling after leagues. This is probably one of the worst times to bowl, as far as lane conditions are concerned. The lanes are usually fried due to the bowling just proceeding you. Most league bowlers use some sort of Resin ball, that pulls oil off the lane. Dry the track area of the lanes. This means that the lane conditioner is not there to protect your ball or the lanes. This is cause wear faster to your ball.

Sounds like you need to find a new proshop, it very important to have a good relationship. How did the last proshop take when you blast his work? Take it there was on offer to fix your ball?

BTW, most cleaner do not alter the surface of the ball. Energizer and Power Wash are polish safe from my experience. Clean and Dull is not polish safe, then again there are cleaner that will help maintain or restore shine, these should not be used on dull balls.

[SledgeMe]

I, myself, am in the same situation, I am looking for something that has less than the BWS. I thought a Toxic would do the trick, but after reading this I don't know. My only other option is a Doom or a Vibe.

Trust me I have done pretty much everything to lessen the hook of my BWS, short of putting it in the Lustre King.

BTW, putting your ball in the Lustre King is a surefire way to kill hook, it just may be too much.

[icawn]

yea i guess the lanes are pretty fried. i hadn't bowled in quite a few years so i almost forgot the typical amounts of oil i should be finding on the lanes. to be specific, not once have i ever seen an oil track on my ball from using it at these lanes, but i thought it was just because of the coloring on my ball which made the oil tracks too hard to see. the only time i ever did see an oil track was when i threw a ball the proshop guy had in the back, when i had no ball of my own, in order to find my pap.

as for the proshop owner..
he bowls in the leagues.
he's only ever there during the leagues, which means ~5-9pm during the days his leagues bowl.
he is always in a rush, to bowl his turn, and return to finish drilling balls etc..not good for quality i would say.

in truth i wasn't satisfied, and i told him about the thumb bite i was getting. he beveled the ball a few times for me and every time i told him i was still in pain, and he had to leave so i told him i would just catch him later. to me that doesn't make me a satisfied customer.

and yup, he sure as hell didn't offer to redrill my thumb hole. his excuse was that i had left the shop as a satisfied customer from when he measured my hand using his fitting-ball. and that he was not going to continue to work on my ball without charging me. i felt rushed out of there as well, after i had returned with my concerns (and of course after he already extracted the $50 from me dor the drilling).

i think he drilled my thumb stud-hole too far south, and thus the thumb hole inside the stud was on the north-end of the stud..meaning there wasn't jack for space to bevel into. right now i use tape over the edge to soften the bite a little. but i still leave in pain each time i bowl.

he is not the friendly type who i could make a friendly relationship with. he's older and set in his ways. definitely doesn't seem to be the type who would be man enough to admit when he's made a mistake. works for AMF in Columbia, Missouri if anyone cares. I'll be in St. Louis soon where i plan to check out a couple other pro shops and better drillers.

been trying to decide between the cherry/blue vibe. from seeing other posts on these boards, i think i will go with the cherry, and drill it quite weak. according to my pap, having the pin just above the ring finger is over 6.5 inches away from my pap already. seems to be a rather long distance in my opinion. but of course that's coming from this terrible driller. i think i need to have someone else find my pap

[TenPinSniper]

Sounds like you found a winner there... personally I would not waste my time with that joker either.

Blister's should be able to recommend a good shop over in STL...
I have a good shop up in KC, if you want to come this way.

Is this the only guy in Columbia, hard to believe in a town of that size?

Here is a link to coaches in Missouri...
http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/SearchCoachResults.aspx?country=US&state=MO

Call you local coach and see who they recommend for a proshop... If all else fails call Ron Holmes at CMSU.

[icawn]

nice thanks for the info. it is good to find others who are in missouri as well.

yea, in all the research i've done, that guy is the only driller in the only proshop here in columbia. maybe if he had some competition he'd be more curteous.

i have talked to blisters though and he has recommended a couple shops in stlouis:) i will definitely go to them. i wouldn't mind heading over to kc if that doesn't work out either. the drive is easily worth bowling without pain.

my toxic was bought used, but when i buy a brand new cherry i definitely won't settle for a 3rd class driller like the guy here.

[icawn]

well tonight i went to the lanes, and guess what.

there was actually oil on the lanes

i'm not sure why... or who made such a bold move in leaving oil on the lanes. but what a concept! lol..so this is the first time i've gotton to bowl on oil since i've gotton back into bowling 2 months ago. i was on lane 13. it must of been because the women's league is on one side, and the men's league is on the other side.. so the women's league must not have enough players to fill though lane 13! lucky me!

wow you know it's bad when i'm this excited to find oil. but it makes me sure that i want to keep my toxic the way it is, and get a cherry vibe.

but anyway, the toxic did great. for the first time ever, i could miss right of the pocket, very surprising to finally see. also for the first time, i was able to try a more even arc, rather than huge skid and flip. it was quite enjoyable to be able to use LESS hand, and let the ball do it's thing (although don't get me wrong, the toxic was still pretty strong, but i actually had control over the strength level this time). noticably less hand pain as well.

i bowled 8 games. and even after 8 games, the lane still had more oil than any other time i had bowled there. i wish i had lanes like this every time...

[TenPinSniper]

Well it looks like you know what lanes to get for practice. Then again it good to practice on Fried lanes from time to time.

Are you sure you still want something less than your Toxic?

[icawn]

i won't be playing on these lanes forever, only while in college here. my toxic has taken a decent beating thanks to the lanes. especially since i've been using it as my straight balll for spares. i'd rather spread the damage out over another ball.

farther down the road if the lanes in stlouis have oil i may get something stronger than the toxic, but at the moment there's no need. i believe there's a smaller gap between the toxic/anger or toxic/beatn, than the gap between the vibe/toxic. so i'll be more versatile with a vibe/toxic combo for now.

also i forgot to mention that the guy in the next lane had a brunswick monster, and he let me try it a few times. it was a pretty nice ball, definitely not as strong as the toxic, but he has some funky drilling with the pain way out to the right.

anyway, the thumb hole on his ball was great. it gave me abolutely no pain, and it fit almost perfectly. i was pretty peeved that this other guy's ball was better drilled for me than the one this AMF driller 'customized' to fit me.

[blistershurt]

Good luck finding oil. My Anger was rolling out on a fresh shot at one of the houses the other day.

[icawn]

haha oh darn. i'm definitely moving to another city:)

[blistershurt]

lol, St Louis was bowling capital of the world until Sport Shots happened...they're all scared of them here. The most popular house in town has the low average for one of their leagues being around 205, and the high 247 (He's a ball driller) but the point is, everyone here likes an easy shot. They complain when they replace the effing pins!