Black Widow Reaction Help

[Daorge]

Well ive been bowling fingertip for a little over a year, only average about 140-160 depending on the alley. About a month or so ago I bought my 15lb black widow, got it drilled skip / flip and loved it, but for some reason it rolled out on me a few times so i figured I would have my pro shop polish it for me. Unfortanetly it killed my reaction with the polish and threw me way off track for consistancy, so i went back and had the ball returned to 4000 grit abralon which i think is what the black widow is out of the box, but it just doesnt seem the same? it doesnt snap back at all, more of just an arc, and not much of one. Any suggestions on what i should do? is it what i did to the ball, or my approach / release? (i know its hard to tell without seeing me bowl). but any help at all would be highly appreciated.

[big blue]

Well ive been bowling fingertip for a little over a year, only average about 140-160 depending on the alley. About a month or so ago I bought my 15lb black widow, got it drilled skip / flip and loved it, but for some reason it rolled out on me a few times so i figured I would have my pro shop polish it for me. Unfortanetly it killed my reaction with the polish and threw me way off track for consistancy, so i went back and had the ball returned to 4000 grit abralon which i think is what the black widow is out of the box, but it just doesnt seem the same? it doesnt snap back at all, more of just an arc, and not much of one. Any suggestions on what i should do? is it what i did to the ball, or my approach / release? (i know its hard to tell without seeing me bowl). but any help at all would be highly appreciated.




sounds like an inconsistent release, I have had my ball roll out a couple times in practice and it was me not coming through the ball and finishing....

[djmoose]

I agree (not that I'm a bigtime pro or anything...but if it rolls out every once in a while...it has to be how you release it.

I know I'm working on consistancy as well...and after a while...if I start to get lazy and/or tired....I don't release the ball as well and thus...it rolls out.

Why would you re-finish the ball if it only rolled out a FEW times?

[#1_HawgZilla_Owner]

Sounds like you need to work on the release and follow through. I personally dont think getting the Black Widow polished was a good idea, not that it was bad, but I would have left it the way it was. Getting it returned back to what is normally is was a good idea. But like I said, I think you just need practice, especially with the Black Widow and the amount of hook it produces.

[Lenny360]

I doubt the roll out is because of the ball. There was nothing wrong with polishing or dulling the ball. I often change my surfaces on different balls to get the reaction I'm looking for. Since we all have different styles of play and the cover makes the biggest difference in the balls reaction, it's good to try other things with it. My hawgzilla is polished right now, and it's working much better than the out of box finish did for me.

If it only rolled out a couple of times, it's probably your release. Just keep practicing and following through. You'll learn to feel when you throw a ball that will roll out and when it wont.

[Daorge]

Thanks for the input guys, however even bowling 8-10 games after i returned the ball to out of box finish it just doesnt seem the same, i cant get it to snap back at all anymore. Originally when i played out of box with it, i lined up on the left of the head pin and threw basically where this picture shows http://www.bowlingball.com/ProductImages/4444-s2-1.jpg
(oh and to get an idea of what it does when i throw from where i use to, it doesnt react until it gets near the 3 and 6 pin, i guess what im saying is that it reacts to late and just arcs in, or maybe im losing my mind and i have no idea what im talking about?)

and it would go pretty far down and snap back great, i was amazed at how much reaction i got out of it, i dont have hte most revs, and i have a medium ball speed (about 13-15mph). but now that i have had it dulled down again, i pretty much have to start to the right of the lane throw a straight line and watch it slowly arc in. I dont know technical details of the game much, i dont know boards etc, i probably dont make much sense but, any suggestions would be great, i know i need practice, but my ideal is to have a sharp snap back into the pocket and not a slow / smaller arc

[Daorge]

Alright heres a pretty crappy picture but it might explain a little better

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Daorge/4444-s2-1.jpg

to get my ball to move i pretty much have to bowl that line now, and thats what i use to bowl with my last ball (which was a lane #1 uranium buzzsaw)

the entire purpose of my buying the widow was to change my playstyle (dont ask why) i just liked the idea of seeing the ball snap back rather than barely moving into the pocket. Im not sure why i polished the ball, i was happy with it, i just got stupid i guess.

Did hammer have anything on the ball surface to help it react better? or is there anything i can do? yes my release and approach needs work i know that, yes i have consistancy problems, but i bowl 2-4 times a week at about 3-4 games each time i go, im trying hard to fix my mistakes, but i think the biggest one was me getting the widow polished :rolleyes: , now i just need to figure out how to fix it :o

[Gryndryno]

ball speed would have a lot to do with everything too, those figures are mostly for comparative purposes only I would think. Small differences in speed make a big difference.

[Lenny360]

Honestly, it sounds like it might be in your head. Are you sure you're bowling on the same conditions with the same release and ball speed as you were before? Have you been cleaning it well?

I don't think the factory 4000 grit finish is going to be much different if at all from your pro shops'... atleast from my experiences. The dramatic difference as shown in your diagrams just doesn't seem possible when we're talking about the same 4000 finish. I changed my hawgzilla which is basically the same coverstock as the widow down to 1000 and up to having it polished right now. The thing is just as agressive as the day I got it.

I know it might not be possible, but videos would be very helpful. Good luck!

[5iron]

Keep throwing the same way and try to move about 6inches closer to the foul line at the start of your approach,and then try moving 6 inches back from your orignal spot and see what that does for you.;) :) :D Also do you clean your bowling ball after each use?

[walc]

I noticed the same with my Big Blue... when I first started using it I could get it to come back into the pocket from the 4 board. Then had it cleaned and polished to try and keep the coverstock condition and blah it drives through with a soft arc not a snap... just having it resurfaced today to see if I can get the condition back!! Is really silly to change the cover of a ball when it is working a treat!! I've learn from my mistake... Hope you can get you shot back with the BW!! Some good ideas to try posted though...

[jedi47]

I'm more inclined to think your' reaction problems are caused by lane conditions and/or your' release....I bowl in 3 different houses and get 3 totally different reactions with my Black Widow....I've actually decided to not throw it in 2 of them- In 1 house it hooks so hard I almost can't keep it near the head pin (now throwing a Hawg drilled straight up) and in the other house they use an industrial strength grease on the lanes and it'll only break 2 boards (now throwing a Tuff spare ball straight at the pocket).

[djmoose]

Dude, check this:
http://forums.hammerbowling.com/showthread.php?t=579

I just threw my new BW last night and jesus...it's amazing. However, no matter what ball you have...if you don't release it correctly, it's going to roll out or simply be BLAND.

When I got it out for practice before league play, I was so excited...bowling frame after frame (I was alone on the lane) got tired real quick...my wrist/forearm got tired...and same thing with me...my release started to fail and it started to roll out and just be BLAH.

Now, you have to be able to realize WHY a ball isn't doing what you want it to do...I seem to think a lot of people blame it on lane conditions when they can't release the ball the same everytime...I'm not saying I'm perfect...I do watch my ball every time and guage if I threw it correctly.

[big blue]

sound to me like a combination of inconsistent release and speed. Now that you are trying to hook the ball you may in actuality be spinning the ball,not good. Then with all that going on you are throwing it harder plus spinning it and now you have a ball that is spinning not rolling at a high rate of speed causing no flip and rolling out when it does flip. My suggestion is stop trying to hook the ball just bowl your game. In that I mean SLOW DOWN and start bowling again. Right now mentally you are saying "the frickin ball sucks and it wont hook". When in actuality you are probably to fast to the line and then trying to play catch up with your arm. Next time you bowl make sure to take a deep breath before each shot to help you relax. With the added relaxation your will be slower to the line thus creating a better arm swing creating proper ball rotation creating more revs and actually getting the ball rolling.

[Daorge]

I appreciate all the pointers i have received here, and just a little bit more information, I use a wrist brace (currently a mongoose), im going to try and robbys revs to see if its my ball speed / revs. Also I can get it to react if i throw it like a turd (SLOOOOOWWWW down alot), however when i just let my arm swing and try and do it all naturally, i get nothing out of it, maybe my release is just complete junk? i dont know, maybe my ball is drilled a bit off compared to how i release? theres a bunch of factors that come into play, im not blaming the ball, or the lane conditions, i know im not perfect, but thats why i came here for suggestions / help.

Heres a picture of my ball and its drill pattern.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Daorge/P1020117.jpg

Could it be the drill pattern? or should i still just work on how im throwing it and force my self to throw it slow?

[Lenny360]

Looks like a skid/flip drilling to me. It sounds like slowing it down would help, especially when there's a decent amount of oil out there. With my style, if I threw that ball it would skid almost all the way to the pins before it had any time to flip.

[djmoose]

Daorge,

Are you getting a steady track on the ball?

I agree it 'looks' to be drilled for skid/flip...just remember if it is, that means you need to have rotation on the ball (it has to be skidding) If it doesn't skid, it's not going to flip.

Watch some people throw and notice how their ball is skidding and see if you're getting the same rotation on yours. I've seen people put really odd spin/rotation on their balls and when it gets to the dry....it flips...but flips stright and just roll out.

I tend to look for my counter balance hole as it's skidding as my ball usually rotates right around it. So when I see the hole as it's skidding...I know I released it correctly.

Not sure if that's true for everyone/ball...but it's partly how I guage how well I just released it.

Releasing it the same every time (especially later in the night) is hard, don't get me wrong...it's what I work at every night on the lanes.

[Daorge]

Isnt the skid / flip pattern meant more for slower ball speeds and or higher revs? i know i dont have high revs, and my ball speed is medium (as i said 14-15)

Maybe the strong layout would be a better drill pattern for me?

right now it just seems like it carries down to far before it tries to flip, so in turn just looks like its barely hooking or rolling out.

as far as my track, it seems pretty constant in where it is, sometimes itll roll right over the thumb hole though, not all the way over but just a corner of the thumb hole. and also, i have what people call a high track, not sure if thats a good or bad thing?

[big blue]

that ball looks to go long with medium hook.....I would have wanted the cg kicked out a little more.

[5iron]

If your ball is rolling out on you move closer to the foul line. In other words take your stance on the approach and then before you start slide your feet from 3 to 6 inches towards the foul line and that should take care of the problem. It works for me.:) :) :D :D

[Gryndryno]

bump to move spam off front page

[Daorge]

Just an update for you guys.

I had a weight hole added to the ball, and its back to normal for me. It hooks up earlier in the lane and just destroys. Im back to loving the bw :)

Also for those that suggested watch my release and try and be more consistant, I thank you. It turns out, i was putting a side roll on the ball so it was using most of its energy to try and correct my roll so it barely hooked, I am now trying to slow my self down, i moved about 6 inches closer to the lane and instead of lofting the ball like i use to, i get it hooked up earlier on the lane and its working great.

After I realized this and added the hole to help it hook up earlier, i bumped my average so far up to about 160-170 (only about 6-8 games so far), but im definately excited for next weeks league bowl. and hopefully once i get my consitancy down even better ill get my average around 190+

Thanks again for all the pointers