Ball's not hooking

[Tuff01ram]

Well fella's here i am wondering what to do, I started my first league 15 weeks ago,I was rolling a stright ball until week 8 and bought me a Toxic and Anger, form the time i started rolling them i have lost 9 pins off my average and my score have been up and down. I bowl on Med/Heavy oil synthetic lanes and not getting alot of hook outta the ball's! My buddies that have ben watching me bowl say i am not getting enough lift on the ball when i realease it, one has even told me that i need to go with a full roller layout, both my balls are drilled #1 layout hight track. was wanting more info/advice before i buy another ball was looking into the BWB:confused:

[hbhammerhead]

the anger should hook fine on the med to oily conditions. i don't know anything about the toxic, because i have never thrown or seen one thrown. are you getting your hand on the side of the ball at all?

[Tuff01ram]

yes im getting it on the side of the ball just people watching roll say im not gettin genough lift on the ball, the past three weeks my series have been 30 pins above average! should i even be worring or just keep rolling

[Deadman]

mayb if you can get a video of yourself throwing it? Get one of your buddies to take a video of you throwing it on a cell phone or something

[Nica]

Hello
I was in the same boat you were in. I'm not the high quality bowler who should be giving advice but your story resonates with me ! I have lived with your issue.

I watched everyone from young juniors to little old ladies throw the nicest hooks that seemd to consistently bang into the pocket. I found myself hurting both my wrist and my elbow by trying to force spin instead of revs on the ball.
After a while I stopped trying to emulate everybody and their dogs swing pattern and began to throw my own way. I took a lesson from my golfing days and applied it to my bowling. Create a set standard routine and don't deviate from it. Muscle memory is key- it enbables you to relax and most importantly repeat your swing. Sorry thats the golfer in me ! But hey it still applies !
Slowly but surely over the last 5 or 6 weeks my ball has started to hook in a really nice REPEATABLE pattern. My swing path ---and not my buddies, not the nice old lady who loves to give me advice or that rotten junior player who throws strikes seemingly at will !:rolleyes:
I'm pretty happy with my progress and today I played with my new BW Bite and it has further accentuated my hook. I only played a few games today and I'm not fully comfortable with it yet but I know that it will come.
Play your game, work on some routine and if you let it- the hook will come !

[hbhammerhead]

yes im getting it on the side of the ball just people watching roll say im not gettin genough lift on the ball, the past three weeks my series have been 30 pins above average! should i even be worring or just keep rolling

so basically it's a rev problem? if so, try to cup your wrist more and when you release the ball your hand should be under and to the side. also work on your follow through. where does your arm finish once you release? everything should be free and lose, so you get a fluid motion. this is how you create rev on the ball. if you could post some video and a picture of the ball showing the drill layout on the anger that would help too.

[BubbaRay]

Hand position is the key. I can hook a plastic bowling ball! It is the angle of attack, hand position and ball speed that determines whether it will hook or not. Todays coverstocks and core combinations in todays balls eases a bowler's effort to hook the ball. It comes more natural if the ball is drilled to hook because naturally those balls "want-to" hook.

With your fingers in the ball, your thumb should point to the right with the ball cupped in the palm of your hand.
As you deliver the ball, rotate your hand so that your handf comes around the ball counterclockwise and upon release your thumb points straight up at the ceiling.
( For a leftie it would be reversed)

[ballman789]

I think you have 2 good balls there to work with so bfore i bought anything new i would look more towards the way your rolling them and maybe a little surface change on the anger as far as your buddies telling you that you should try a full roller drilling thats not a good idea (unless your a full roller) and if you are by all means change your drillings are you throwing a finger tip grip? and if not you need to no sense in trying to hook a ball with a conventional grip

[Tuff01ram]

Thanks for all the advice I will be try to get some pics off the balls on here soon, fighting with a sick child now! but i am feeling like i also just need to roll my game since it has improved over the past 3 weeks and see where it stands in a few more weeks! Have also thought about a surface change to the Anger any suggestions on where i should take it to?

[BubbaRay]

your sick child comes first before any ball. Post the pics when your child is feeling better. I hope he/she gets well soon.

[hbhammerhead]

just a thought...what is your ball speed? if you throw too fast your ball might not have enough time to catch up to your rev rate therefore not giving you much hook. that might be easier then working on more lift and higher revs.

[icawn]

when i go to the lanes, i almost always see a kid around me throwing a 'ufo' type of spin. it is very common. the ball basically spins almost completely horizontal. it results in very small hook, or none, no matter how many revs you have. but the type of spin action you want, for example, is similar to the backwheels of a car that is out of skidding in attempt to correct the car's alignment with the road, if you get my drift. for much of the kids i see with the ufo throw, i think their ball is too heavy for them and they don't have enough strength to keep it cupped through their release. they're usually not serious bowlers though so they dont care :)

[Tuff01ram]

Just got back from doing the cosmic bowling, bowled 6 games still not much hook, game scores were 156,177,200,152,166,144, these have been the type scores i have been posting during league play minus the 200 still haven't got one during league yet! I really don't know my ball speed or revs, I am feeling im not getting the revs i should and think i'm more of a med speed bowler

[hbhammerhead]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aDzeiw3b-D4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jgq297yrxzs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tc3LLhwG_98&feature=related

maybe this will help a little?

[Drath]

Nice vids hb. Got any more like that?
Thanks
-D

[Rowdy]

Great idea,go to Cosmo...whatever,it ain't bowling,to work on your game. Dry lanes,can't see your mark and annoying teenagers abound. The practice time is worthless unless you roll on lane conditions as close as possible to what you roll on in your league. BTW-30 pins up? Keep on with what you're doing with the ball. You want more hook,redrill the ball for it.

[hbhammerhead]

Nice vids hb. Got any more like that?
Thanks
-D

unfortunately i don't. someone posted that on here awhile ago and i thought that i would pass it by everyone again. thought it might help tuffram figure out a good release to get more hook etc.

rowdy - i think it's more of a release problem at this point. haven't seen any pics of the drill yet. i agree that it's better to practice on conditions similar to league obviously, but i think everyone should learn how to throw on all conditions just to be well rounded.

[TenPinSniper]

Yeah, I agree the more conditions you bowl on the better bowler you will become. Maybe, I need to take my advise on this.

It good to bowl on a fresh shot, because if you bowl or practice well it will build confidence for league on that shot.

[Drath]

Hey Tuff,
I think we’re in the same boat. I just started the 2nd half of my first league and have a ton to learn. 143 avg. 196 HG. 520 HS. I got my first ball (a BWS) for Christmas. When I got my Black Widow… man I was gonna go out there and hook it like crazy. I mean why not, I saw all the videos, these Hammers are awesome right. Well, after eating a big helping of humble pie I realized that you need some solid fundamentals to hang with the big dogs; even if you have a great ball. At first I thought, “I just need more revs.” Well, after reading this message board (thanks everyone) and several other web sites, and talking with some experienced bowlers, along with my teammates, I’ve concluded that BubbaRay is dead on when he says, “Hand Position is key.” I mean sure, we can rev the h3ll out of the ball but it does us no good if it spins like a top down the lane. The axis on which the ball “revs” is the key, or at least a key… I think.:confused:

Right now I’m working on cupping and staying more under/behind the ball. I’ve been practicing the “football toss” drill. I’ve decided that, for now, I’ll be happy with a smaller hook and fewer revs as long as they are “rev-ing” in the right direction. If you’re bowling 180’s and 200’s I know you’ve seen the way the pins explode when these Hammers hit the pocket (even with a smaller hook). So I say we just work on our fundamentals, play it down the 10 board (or where ever works for now), and smile when the pins explode. Our hooks will come, it just takes more work.

Good luck on that first league 200. I hope to get mine tonight. :)

[Tuff01ram]

Drath i think we are on the same page i am trying to learn and be a pro at the same time, and right noe i judt wanna make it through my first league and have a decent Avg. going in to the summer league..I sometimes bowl up to 4 game after our league concludes on Thursday morning and keep working on the fundimentials like you said, When the summer league rolls around they better watch out!! And yes when the Hammers hit the pins they do EXPLODE weather is a solid or light pocket hit!:cool:

[hbhammerhead]

Hey Tuff,
I think we’re in the same boat. I just started the 2nd half of my first league and have a ton to learn. 143 avg. 196 HG. 520 HS. I got my first ball (a BWS) for Christmas. When I got my Black Widow… man I was gonna go out there and hook it like crazy. I mean why not, I saw all the videos, these Hammers are awesome right. Well, after eating a big helping of humble pie I realized that you need some solid fundamentals to hang with the big dogs; even if you have a great ball. At first I thought, “I just need more revs.” Well, after reading this message board (thanks everyone) and several other web sites, and talking with some experienced bowlers, along with my teammates, I’ve concluded that BubbaRay is dead on when he says, “Hand Position is key.” I mean sure, we can rev the h3ll out of the ball but it does us no good if it spins like a top down the lane. The axis on which the ball “revs” is the key, or at least a key… I think.:confused:

Right now I’m working on cupping and staying more under/behind the ball. I’ve been practicing the “football toss” drill. I’ve decided that, for now, I’ll be happy with a smaller hook and fewer revs as long as they are “rev-ing” in the right direction. If you’re bowling 180’s and 200’s I know you’ve seen the way the pins explode when these Hammers hit the pocket (even with a smaller hook). So I say we just work on our fundamentals, play it down the 10 board (or where ever works for now), and smile when the pins explode. Our hooks will come, it just takes more work.

Good luck on that first league 200. I hope to get mine tonight. :)

sounds like you got a good idea of how to get what you want. the football analogy is perfect and i see that you got that from the videos :D. honestly after throwing both a big hook and small more controlled hook, i would opt for the small controlled. simply because it's more consistent. if you look at the pba bowlers on tour most of them throw that way. just remember to keep relaxed and fluid throughout the whole approach. something i've learned is that bowling is almost completely finesse. the looser i am while i'm throwing the ball the better i do and the better i feel throwing the ball. good luck!

[Drath]

Yeah HB, I’d been reading about the underhand football training technique for a while but that was the first time I’d seen it on video. I figured if it’s good enough for WRW to mention in his video I better start digging through the closet and find the ol’ football. We’ll see if it pays off at league tonight.

[Rowdy]

Drath you're on the right path. Bet you'll take a 200 going up the 10 board vs. a 175 fighting a big hook. It's called taking what the lane and your equipment will give you on that day. BWS Tip:Watch for the ball to finish just a board or two high. That's the sign that you're burning up that line. Either move 1 and 1 outside,or move 2 and 1 inside.

[Tuff01ram]

Great idea,go to Cosmo...whatever,it ain't bowling,to work on your game. Dry lanes,can't see your mark and annoying teenagers abound. The practice time is worthless unless you roll on lane conditions as close as possible to what you roll on in your league. BTW-30 pins up? Keep on with what you're doing with the ball. You want more hook,redrill the ball for it.




Yes Rowdy Cosmic bowling is not the best time to pactice on idel lane conditions but it has been asked to get the lanes oiled when we come in to practice and they just laughed,I do have a 3 1/2yr old son that loves to go,and if i can block out all the annoying teenagers running aboud its gonna help my game also blocking out the distractions during league play!!:eek:

[Rowdy]

That's all it'll help with. As long as you go in with the realization that you won't change anything based on the ball reactions you get on those trashed lanes. Here's a thought-Shoot corner single pins and corner pairs. Picking up spares after that should be a breeze. And you can spend more time with the tyke.

No house is ever gonna waste oil on teenagers who are only there for the loud music and goofy lights.