Coaching

[agroves]

How many of you Hammerheads enlist the services of a coach? I mean a real coach, not your buddy who tells you to change balls during league.

I get one coaching session a week. Usually about 15-20 minutes of discussion and me working on one thing or another for about an hour or so.

If you get coaching what are you working on?

Me, I'm always working on my pushaway among other things. I feel that a good shot or bad shot is determined as soon as the ball starts moving.

Andrew

[BubbaRay]

When I run into a real problem so that I am strugling for 3-4 weeks I turn to a a fellow Pro, Joe Hutchinson to take a look . he can usually spot real quick what is eratic in my game . Then I'm good to go.

[slap]

How many of you Hammerheads enlist the services of a coach? I mean a real coach, not your buddy who tells you to change balls during league.

I get one coaching session a week. Usually about 15-20 minutes of discussion and me working on one thing or another for about an hour or so.

If you get coaching what are you working on?

Me, I'm always working on my pushaway among other things. I feel that a good shot or bad shot is determined as soon as the ball starts moving.

Andrew

For the average bowler, ~90% percent of their problems start with the first (or second in a 5) step. It's amazing...

[Mike_N_Nashville]

I started last January working with a coach and we have lessons every other week unless one of us is out of town. He has been rated as one of the top 100 USBC coaches for the last 3 years now.

I had developed a lot of bad habits with my release/follow-through that we have mostly corrected but aren't quite there yet.

My average has increased over 30 pins since I started working with him so far and is still climbing.

Mike

[Stampy79]

I am in touch with at least 2 or 3 coaches a year and my coach is always handy for me. I am going to see Pete Webers coach (Rich Weber - His Brother) as soon as I can get a Friday off ! Missed the last chance to go. I was using a full wrist device for almost 30 years. This year (exactly 2 months ago) I took it off. Now I have to learn a lot of things over again, but I refuse to quit now. I am 47 but I am not going to stop learning. You will never realize how lazy you get with a brace until you take it off and really try to get better

[JoshWithrow]

For the average bowler, ~90% percent of their problems start with the first (or second in a 5) step. It's amazing...

So most peoples problems are timing issues?

[slap]

So most peoples problems are timing issues?

There are a wide variety of things that can go wrong. For example, the pushaway step is one of the first things a coach will look at. This "simple" step has a great affect on the physical game. Generally speaking, the feet follow the ball.

1. Direction (side to side)
Pushing the ball out in the wrong direction (not towards the target) can pull the body offline with the target. This will alter the bowler's swing path and cause shots to be pulled inside or pushed outside of the desired target. This can also pull the release point away from the ankle area, causing the bowler to lose leverage, ball speed and revs. This can also affect balance at the line.

2. Length (front to back)
Pushing the ball too far or not far enough will alway affect the physical game. First off, this can affect timing, ball speed and the backswing (It can also be used to fix timing problems) This can also affect body posture and balance at the line. Again, the feet and body follow the ball.

There are other items but these are the most common that I can think of.

[agroves]

There are a wide variety of things that can go wrong. For example, the pushaway step is one of the first things a coach will look at. This "simple" step has a great affect on the physical game. Generally speaking, the feet follow the ball.

1. Direction (side to side)
Pushing the ball out in the wrong direction (not towards the target) can pull the body offline with the target. This will alter the bowler's swing path and cause shots to be pulled inside or pushed outside of the desired target. This can also pull the release point away from the ankle area, causing the bowler to lose leverage, ball speed and revs. This can also affect balance at the line.

2. Length (front to back)
Pushing the ball too far or not far enough will alway affect the physical game. First off, this can affect timing, ball speed and the backswing (It can also be used to fix timing problems) This can also affect body posture and balance at the line. Again, the feet and body follow the ball.

There are other items but these are the most common that I can think of.

On point with that reply. Over extended pushaway forces the shoulder to pull the ball into the swing vs allowing gravity to take the ball back.

Andrew

[THE CAPT. EMO]

kind of off the subject here guys, sorry

i live in TN myself.......wondered where bouts in nashville are you mike?

where do you bowl?




HAMMER WIDOW BITE
MORICH WEAPON OF MASS BIAS
EBONITE GYRO PRO (spare ball):eek:

[Crusher279757]

I have never had coaching before, but would love to have one. One problem is that the coach I know can't teach worth a darn. There are a couple kids that have been bowling worse since I saw this guy start to coach them a couple months ago. He makes them wear a weird back brace somtimes, and has a bunch of these gadgets along with a little tv and training videos. I really don't like this guy and the way he coaches.

[Stampy79]

Well, let me tell you. Most will do worse for a while. There is no magic wand guys, it takes hard work and practice and thats the bottom line

[Crusher279757]

Well, let me tell you. Most will do worse for a while. There is no magic wand guys, it takes hard work and practice and thats the bottom line

But this has been since like September I want to say. Their forms are even worse. They look like robots, or like they have 2 x 4's glued to their arms, legs, and back.

[Rowdy]

Crusher,the plain truth is that some guys just can't coach. It's their way or the highway. Every bowler is different and coaches have to look at the whole picture in order to find the one thing to fix that will enable the bowler to get better. These "One size fits all" coaches give me the creeps.

[agroves]

Crusher,the plain truth is that some guys just can't coach. It's their way or the highway. Every bowler is different and coaches have to look at the whole picture in order to find the one thing to fix that will enable the bowler to get better. These "One size fits all" coaches give me the creeps.

Agreed. You have to relate to the student. Sometimes, no matter how hard we try, you just can't explain the swing to some people.

I've also seen ALOT of USBC "certified" coaches that couldn't coach at all. They say, "those that can't do, teach". Hmmm....not sure I completely agree with that. I think some level of proficiency is required to accurately teach this sport. If you don't know how to adjust to carry a 10 pin, how are you going to teach a student to do it? If you average 190 on a house shot, you probably shouldn't be teaching someone to bowl.

I am a crappy golfer, 14 handicap, you wouldn't and SHOULDn't let me teach you to play golf. I have a fair understanding of swing path, grip and stance, but that doesn't mean I can teach someone to swing a golf club.

That is another thing that bothers me about this sport we all love. I can go to any course in Spokane and get a lesson from a certified PGA professional. But, you can't go to any bowling center and find a certified or otherwise coach(again, not all are good, but having the option would be nice, right?). Until the USBC gets more involved with coaching, I don't see bowling ever getting respect as a sport.

Andrew

[Rowdy]

And theres the problem. You don't "explain the swing" to anybody. Me and MAYBE 10 others on here could take you through an entire swing,from picking the ball up to the follow through. You find the most glaring weakness and address THAT ONE THING. Then next session find the next weakness and work on that. One thing at a time. Same with a golf swing. And golfers don't go to coaches any more than bowlers do. All that spiffy new equipment and golf scores have not gone down for the average player. Same with bowlers. The balls are better,but the lane conditions have gotten harder. If anything the average league bowler is WORSE today than the guys that rolled 10,20 years ago. How many scratch bowlers do you see today? There ain't that many of us left. Time was,Friday and Saturday Night were the domain of the scratch bowler. Now I'm lucky if one house will float a scratch league.

[agroves]

And theres the problem. You don't "explain the swing" to anybody. Me and MAYBE 10 others on here could take you through an entire swing,from picking the ball up to the follow through. You find the most glaring weakness and address THAT ONE THING. Then next session find the next weakness and work on that. One thing at a time. Same with a golf swing. And golfers don't go to coaches any more than bowlers do. All that spiffy new equipment and golf scores have not gone down for the average player. Same with bowlers. The balls are better,but the lane conditions have gotten harder. If anything the average league bowler is WORSE today than the guys that rolled 10,20 years ago. How many scratch bowlers do you see today? There ain't that many of us left. Time was,Friday and Saturday Night were the domain of the scratch bowler. Now I'm lucky if one house will float a scratch league.

I completely agree, and I was using the "explain the swing" as a generalization of coaching.

Anyway, I can't argue that league bowlers are better, because they aren't. They are products of their enviroments. Generally speaking, if a guy averaged 190 in 1985 he would be around 215 or so today. Consistency and accuracy were more important in those days. High revs, speed and dry boards have created a bunch of adult bumper bowlers.

That said, I think the USBC and PBA are on the right track with the PBA X leagues. We had 30 members in our league last summer and our scratch tournaments are starting to see increased entries. I think some guys are finding out that they can bowl on those patterns if given some adjustment time to work on their flaws. It is good for the sport in general.

Andrew

[JoshWithrow]

That said, I think the USBC and PBA are on the right track with the PBA X leagues. We had 30 members in our league last summer and our scratch tournaments are starting to see increased entries. I think some guys are finding out that they can bowl on those patterns if given some adjustment time to work on their flaws. It is good for the sport in general.

Personally, I think they still have a LONG way to go, and I think it's going to take changed/updated regulations to get there. At least speaking for my area, there are ALOT of egotistical people whose little feelings got hurt by rolling on the big boy patterns. Lots of people found out that they DON'T have what it takes to maintain their THS averages, and they couldn't live with that.

[Rowdy]

215??? My,aren't you the generous one. A 190 bowler in 1985 would be around...oh...155,160 today. 35,40 pin handicap now. That's with the bowler having picked up the game fairly recently. The 190 guy in '85 bowling NOW would be a 220,225 bowler because he would know how to work the ball.

The PBA X leagues sound great,let me know what one is like. The last one around here drew THREE people to the organizational meeting. No house wants to touch it with a 60 foot laminated lane. Everyone moans about house shots,but when it comes time to put the ego up for grabs,they all grab their gear and run and hide.

[agroves]

215??? My,aren't you the generous one. A 190 bowler in 1985 would be around...oh...155,160 today. 35,40 pin handicap now. That's with the bowler having picked up the game fairly recently. The 190 guy in '85 bowling NOW would be a 220,225 bowler because he would know how to work the ball.


I think you misread my post. I am saying the same thing you are.

190 avg in 1985 means that guy would avg 215 or more today.

190 avg on todays easy conditions, means 170ish or less then.

Better analogy?

Andrew

[Rowdy]

Agreed. The "Adult Bumper Bowler" thing? Big myth. I'll lay cash that only 1% of league bowlers know how to do that. And we're rolling scratch. All of these guys have ONE shot,for that house,on those lanes. Make 'em go to the next house down the road and they'll be lucky to shoot 125. Josh is right,it'll take a rules change to have any impact. And in the words of the head of the USBC in a reply to my E-Mail about that very thing..."Not in your lifetime".

[Mike_N_Nashville]

kind of off the subject here guys, sorry

i live in TN myself.......wondered where bouts in nashville are you mike?


I live in Antioch, work in Hermitage, and bowl league Tuesday nights at Hermitage lanes.

In the course of practice I have bowled in every center in the Nashville area I think. LOL I like trying different lanes to learn how to bowl on different conditions.

Mostly for practice I bowl at either Donelson lanes, Tusculum lanes, Hermitage lanes or Cumberland lanes just because those are the 4 centers closest to me.

Mike

[Spare Time Proshop]

215??? My,aren't you the generous one. A 190 bowler in 1985 would be around...oh...155,160 today. 35,40 pin handicap now. That's with the bowler having picked up the game fairly recently. The 190 guy in '85 bowling NOW would be a 220,225 bowler because he would know how to work the ball.

The PBA X leagues sound great,let me know what one is like. The last one around here drew THREE people to the organizational meeting. No house wants to touch it with a 60 foot laminated lane. Everyone moans about house shots,but when it comes time to put the ego up for grabs,they all grab their gear and run and hide.

Well Guys I started Bowling mens leagues in 1985 as a senior in High School and my Avg was 196 that was the last year i didnt avg 200....I would have to say the shot today is alot better as lanes machines put down oil better they are more even and the shot stay long I bowl in a city where all three house are still WOOD......The new bowling balls has helped the scores also....In 1985 a guy would come to the bowling alley with One Ball....And if he shot 240 or better everyone would come give him five......Today you have to shot 270 or better to win a pot.........