BWS Problem AND ?

[pipes]

Ok about 5 weeks ago I bought a new BWS . Everything has been great BUT I have noticed over the last 10 games or so around the thumb hole the cover stock is chipping away . Its now chipped off about a say 1/8 inch a little more or less in places . IMO its a ball defect ! What do you guys think and if its a defect WHAT should I do . I bought it from a local pro shop and I figure its got about 50 games on it .

Thanks in adavance pipes

[bluerrpilot]

Are you using a slug? What kind of bevel do you have on the thumb hole? it could be the lanes as well. If your using a slug, it could be a problem with the glue that was used when putting it in.

[agroves]

I would definitely take the ball back to the shop. Not enough bevel around the thumb, a reaction to the glue or something.

Andrew

[pipes]

NO slug don't care for them on the thumb ! I think I am gona take it back . IF he the pro shop don't do anything I will ship it to hammer and see what they say I think . As for the bevel I don't know I left that up to the pro shop seemed fine I like the way it felt !

[pipes]

OK I took it in and the owner of the Pro Shop he did just what I thought he would !! He says its from the machines at the bowling alleys . He took the ball and said he was going to show the ball damage to the local Dist and see if they would cover it ! If not I am out a luck my ball is crap and I can't afford to be buying a new ball every 4 weeks with no warany on them worth a dang . Of course he says he never drilled it wrong . Now if The Dist say NO waranty coverage . I guess I am outa luck So much for buying it at a pro shop so they take care of you .This as my dauughter says SUCKS .:mad: I duno what to do if the Dist says NO and I am willing to bet he goes along with the Pro Shop owner I could tell by his don't care act he put on .:mad:I paid cash BIG mistake or my CC company would a took the money back from the low life.What he didn't know is I was going to buy another ball and a pair a shoes today IF he took care of the problem and these guys wonder WHY they go out a business . I guess I go back to not bowling again .

pipes

[bluerrpilot]

Why is this the fault of the proshop?

The covers on these balls can be very soft and prone to damage from the lanes. it happens all the time. Are you leaving the ball in the car and subjecting it to rapid temperature changes?

Why dont you snap a couple of pictures and show us what your talking about. Then maybe we can offer some other ideas.

It also does not mean the ball is worthless. It can fixed and good as new.

[agroves]

Why is this the fault of the proshop?

The covers on these balls can be very soft and prone to damage from the lanes. it happens all the time. Are you leaving the ball in the car and subjecting it to rapid temperature changes?

Why dont you snap a couple of pictures and show us what your talking about. Then maybe we can offer some other ideas.

It also does not mean the ball is worthless. It can fixed and good as new.

Pics would be nice. If the damage is only around the thumb hole, then it is hard to believe the machine caused it.

Secondly, if the machine did cause the damage, shouldn't your beef be with the center owner/management?

Andrew

[BubbaRay]

pipes, I understand you already contacted thye pro shop about the problem but contact Hammer and explain the problem with the ball and that you returned it to the pro shop . Hammer offers a one-year warranty on bowling balls and a two-year warranty on bowling bags. If the product meets the warranty guidelines, please return the defective product to the pro shop where it was purchased. The pro shop operator will work with his/her distributor to get a replacement. If you have difficulty with the return, please feel free to contact Hammer at (800) 453-2158 or contact@hammerbowling.com.

[Stampy79]

Well, even if neither will warranty it, you can always plug and redrill the thumb. You will or at least should use a thumb slug then.

[pipes]

First I do think IMO only now its the cover stock a bad place or bad drilling just IMO now . 2 The Pro Shop was kina nasty imo about it bad attitude! He is taking it to the local dist today and I should have there answer today . The cover stock on this ball looks 20 years old after about 40 games . I have saw 20 or more of the BWS bowled with much much more at the same lanes and they look fine ! I will post a couple a pictures tonight . Maybe I will get lucky and the local dist will take care of it under waranty ! Thanks Bubba I am going to go to Hammer with the problem IF the local Dist refuses to honor the waranty. As for adding a thumb SLUG no I don't likem I tried a couple a balls with thumb slugs a friend has and his hand is almost the same as mine. And NO I never leave the ball in the car or in cold or hot places IN Mi this time a year its cold the ball NEVER stays in the car .

I do have a question thou are you guys saying I need a thumb slug to protect the hole ??

[pipes]

Well, even if neither will warranty it, you can always plug and redrill the thumb. You will or at least should use a thumb slug then.


Even IF I plug it I will stil have a area of missing cover stock . :mad:

[Stampy79]

Well, NO, thats what plugging does is fill the holes. If your pro shop guy cant do that then find a new shop

[pipes]

OK The local Dist gave his answer he says NO waranty coverage its machine dammage . :mad: We shall see what the company says and does now . :mad:

[Rowdy]

I could say what's on my mind,but I really need pictures of the ball and a close up of the thumb hole first. Be warned,you may not like the answer we're gonna give you.

[JoshWithrow]

Even IF I plug it I will stil have a area of missing cover stock . :mad:

That won't matter where it's at. If it was in your track area that'd be one thing, but since it's somewhere the ball doesn't track it won't mess with anything. Except your eyes.

[Rowdy]

Unless he's rolling it right over the thumb hole.:eek: You aren't doing that,are you Pipes?

[pipes]

I could say what's on my mind,but I really need pictures of the ball and a close up of the thumb hole first. Be warned,you may not like the answer we're gonna give you.

Always say whats on your mind I do I think a ball this new and not bowled with much should be replaced NO questions asked ! I talked to the cust service Rep today for the company and she told me a lot a things ! One that really surprised me was she told me she was NOT a bowler so didn't know a LOT a what I was saying but would look into it . I am NOT gona hold my breath :mad:

One thing forsure I am very UNINPRESSED with all the cust service so far . another thing forsure I will pay for the next ball with my Am EX card NOT CASH I would of already had there attention and my money back .Thou I still have a small chance I hope that the Mfg will replace it . again I am not gona hold my breath Bowling alley blames the driller driller blames bowling alley and local dist blames the bowling alley and maybe the driller he talked in circles :confused: . round and round we go . :mad:

at any rate The waranty and buying from a local pro shop seems useless in my case so far BUT I am not gona give up.

still the most amazing thing the Mfg cust rep told me she is NOT a bowler . That is hard to understand a company hiring a rep for bowling equipment and she don't bowl :confused: and even if she don't don't be DUMB enough to tell a cust that .

I will post pic's as soon as I get the ball back from the local Dist . That was to happen today but after I called the Mfg there holding it maybe I will get lucky and they will replace it . HEY I can always hope .

pipes

[pipes]

Unless he's rolling it right over the thumb hole.:eek: You aren't doing that,are you Pipes?


NO LOL:D my ball track shows I am NOT :)

[bluerrpilot]

I think a ball this new and not bowled with much should be replaced NO questions asked

So if you buy a new set of tires and get a nail in one of them after only a week, the tire shop should replace it for you free of charge?

still the most amazing thing the Mfg cust rep told me she is NOT a bowler . That is hard to understand a company hiring a rep for bowling equipment

I know a girl who works for customer service for Southwest Airlines, and not only does she not know the first thing about flying an airplane, but she doesnt even like to fly.

[pipes]

So if you buy a new set of tires and get a nail in one of them after only a week, the tire shop should replace it for you free of charge?



I know a girl who works for customer service for Southwest Airlines, and not only does she not know the first thing about flying an airplane, but she doesnt even like to fly.


Well having spoken to them on the phone and been on there planes I would belive it :O) and NO on the nail BUT if a HUNK came out of a new tire I would expect to get it replaced FREE .

But IMHO if this was an up right cust forward comapny they should and would replace the ball if there a don't care company then I will get nothing BUT a hard time thats my 2 cents and looks like all its worth .

They treated folks like that here in Detroit buying cars for years and look what happend to the big three having a customer be dammed attiudes . But there is hope maybe the Mfg a replace it my ball yet . I am at there mercy anyway you look at it .

She did say 1 thing that I should a bought it from a place that had a 90 day no question asked return policy. I was sorry to tell her this pro Shop didn't offer that . I appreciate her wise advice thou . This was after I told her the Shop wouldn't cover it :confused: Besides I don't know any .

O well this horse is dead . Thou I will let anyone that cares know what they end up doing .

[Rowdy]

Always say whats on your mind I do I think a ball this new and not bowled with much should be replaced NO questions asked ! I talked to the cust service Rep today for the company and she told me a lot a things ! One that really surprised me was she told me she was NOT a bowler so didn't know a LOT a what I was saying but would look into it . I am NOT gona hold my breath :mad:

One thing forsure I am very UNINPRESSED with all the cust service so far . another thing forsure I will pay for the next ball with my Am EX card NOT CASH I would of already had there attention and my money back .Thou I still have a small chance I hope that the Mfg will replace it . again I am not gona hold my breath Bowling alley blames the driller driller blames bowling alley and local dist blames the bowling alley and maybe the driller he talked in circles :confused: . round and round we go . :mad:

at any rate The waranty and buying from a local pro shop seems useless in my case so far BUT I am not gona give up.

still the most amazing thing the Mfg cust rep told me she is NOT a bowler . That is hard to understand a company hiring a rep for bowling equipment and she don't bowl :confused: and even if she don't don't be DUMB enough to tell a cust that .

I will post pic's as soon as I get the ball back from the local Dist . That was to happen today but after I called the Mfg there holding it maybe I will get lucky and they will replace it . HEY I can always hope .

pipes


"Always say whats on my mind" Hehehehehe. I heard a coupla hundred guys screaming,"NO!" on that one.

A customer rep for a bowling company that doesn't roll is nothing new. Heck,I'd be happy that she spoke English. What company is this???

Have you E-Mailed Brian Graham about this yet?? He's still on the job,I just got an E-Mail from him earlier today. Brian will help you out all he can,I'm sure of it. Ask Brian if he wants to see the ball before you ship it. He sent me a BWS to replace one that had a cracked bridge because of a bad drill job and didn't want the old one back. Maybe you'll end up with new BWS and can plug your old one and put a really strong drill in it. Think a RICO BWS. Priceless.

[pipes]

"Always say whats on my mind" Hehehehehe. I heard a coupla hundred guys screaming,"NO!" on that one.

A customer rep for a bowling company that doesn't roll is nothing new. Heck,I'd be happy that she spoke English. What company is this???

Have you E-Mailed Brian Graham about this yet?? He's still on the job,I just got an E-Mail from him earlier today. Brian will help you out all he can,I'm sure of it. Ask Brian if he wants to see the ball before you ship it. He sent me a BWS to replace one that had a cracked bridge because of a bad drill job and didn't want the old one back. Maybe you'll end up with new BWS and can plug your old one and put a really strong drill in it. Think a RICO BWS. Priceless.

Could you send this mans E mail address my E Mail is admin@affordablepipes.com

I would really appreciate it I don't even know who Brian Graham is ? :O)

The young lady was nice on the phone and yes spoke very good English :O) . I just want to get a ball so I can go back to bowling .Be nice My next ball was gona be a BWP and maybe a Bite same day soon .

[Rowdy]

Brian Graham is THE Head HammerHead. He's in charge of the Hammer brand until the 28th of January. Then it's off to the USBC for BG. His Email is: bgraham@hammerbowling.com

Tell him I sent you,hehehe.

[jedi47]

So,,,,,,, WHERE'S the pics of the damage?

[pipes]

So,,,,,,, WHERE'S the pics of the damage?

ASAP They still have the ball at the dist I hope I can get it tommrow if not then Tuesday .since tommrow is a legal Holiday .

[VmsTopGun]

Well, here's my pics of problems in signature ( bw crack ).
we own 12 hammers, nm anger bws bwp doom.
Only one with a problem is the BWS my son throws.

Went to buddies yesterday and show them the cracks. the claim is the problem is that when they glue in the inserts, it doesnt allow the ball to flex arround the holes any more and the edges crack.??? Well if that was the case, all my balls would be cracking. this one is new september.
I have three others that are a lot older and not a one shows this severe cracking.

[pipes]

Mine is chipped all around the tumb hole and it has NO INSERT ? I will post a pic soon By the recording the Pro Shop that has my ball may not be open on Yuesdays . Have to wait until noon EST to see . :mad:

[Sparehater]

VMS, thats the reason that the warranty is void if u put inserts in. Its like a hit-or-miss thing. Sometimes it just doesn't go right and it cracks, all mine have been fine.

[Rowdy]

TopGun,I showed your pics to the guy who has drilled a ton of balls for me. He's been drilling for over 20 years. He had two recomondations for you. First,no more oval holes. He's seen that problem trying to drill ovals before,now we drill round holes and make the insert oval by grinding the insert instead of the ball. Something about side stress in the drilling process. Second,there may have been a chemical reaction between the ball,insert and glue used. Since the glue creates heat,that may have led to the problem. He wondered if the ball was rolled before the glue had a chance to cure properly. The glue made heat around the hole,the ball was rolled too soon,and the hole area hit the pins and/or something in the ball return. The fix is to drill out beyond the cracked area,fill and redrill.

[VmsTopGun]

TopGun,I showed your pics to the guy who has drilled a ton of balls for me. He's been drilling for over 20 years. He had two recomondations for you. First,no more oval holes. He's seen that problem trying to drill ovals before,now we drill round holes and make the insert oval by grinding the insert instead of the ball. Something about side stress in the drilling process. .

Hard for me to tell about the holes in the ball being oval or round, but good to know that one. no oval drills from now on...Thanks!


Second,there may have been a chemical reaction between the ball,insert and glue used. Since the glue creates heat,that may have led to the problem. He wondered if the ball was rolled before the glue had a chance to cure properly. The glue made heat around the hole,the ball was rolled too soon,and the hole area hit the pins and/or something in the ball return. The fix is to drill out beyond the cracked area,fill and redrill.

This guy uses about three drops of super glue so my first inclination is that it wouldn't become that hot but i havent glued my fingers together lately so I wouldn't know how hot it gets, but another good to know. Glue cools before the first roll..

Rowdy, thanks for taking the time to get your guy to look at the pics! much appreciated.

Sparehater, yeah Iv'e read the box top on all 12 and dont understand the void thing when ebonite knows that a vast majority of owners who use inserts take good care of their stuff and their not house balls being pounded. his BWS is our only issue so far....

[pipes]

"Always say whats on my mind" Hehehehehe. I heard a coupla hundred guys screaming,"NO!" on that one.

A customer rep for a bowling company that doesn't roll is nothing new. Heck,I'd be happy that she spoke English. What company is this???

Have you E-Mailed Brian Graham about this yet?? He's still on the job,I just got an E-Mail from him earlier today. Brian will help you out all he can,I'm sure of it. Ask Brian if he wants to see the ball before you ship it. He sent me a BWS to replace one that had a cracked bridge because of a bad drill job and didn't want the old one back. Maybe you'll end up with new BWS and can plug your old one and put a really strong drill in it. Think a RICO BWS. Priceless.

OK I just got a call to pick up my old ball tonight . There NOT going to do a thing for me !!!! I tried to contact Mr Graham but he is NO LONGER with Ebonite/ Hammer . . I can't get passed the cust service rep and her standard reply is send it to us and we will look at it and let you know . Its my ONLY ball I guess I am gona be out of luck UNLESS someone here knows someone I can contact with some REAL authurity at Hammer Ebonite..

[VmsTopGun]

I tried to contact Mr Graham but he is NO LONGER with Ebonite/ Hammer ...

and from what I hear, no one has been named to replace him.

[pipes]

and from what I hear, no one has been named to replace him.

Thats what they told me :O(

here somthing from the Ebonite web site what a crock atleast for me so far



The Bowler Is Our Boss.
We are a customer-driven company; therefore, we will solicit, listen and profitably act upon customers' needs in a proactive and routine manner. We will deliver products superior to those of our competitors in technology, performance, quality, durability and value. We will not ship products that do not meet our quality and performance specifications.

IMHO there sure NOT living up to this atleast for me IMO anyway .

[Rowdy]

This IS Brians last week.....how much would you be in the office??? Ask Bubba,he'll know.

[pipes]

Here is a pic I promised . Maybe a machine did cause it you guys are the experts !! No matter Iam screwed a ball 5 weeks old and no one the alley the Pro Shop or the company seems to care. I just know I can't afford to spend $200.00 on a ball every few weeks or even months . I want to get 2 or 3 more balls but not if they only last a few weeks and look like this .Maybe I just had some bad luck who knows. I done complaining. I will admit looking at it in this pic that looks like machine damage ?

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/affordablepipes/hammerblackwidow1Small.jpg

[BubbaRay]

This IS Brians last week.....how much would you be in the office??? Ask Bubba,he'll know.


Brians last day was last Thursday. As of now there isn't a replacement that I was informed of.

[BubbaRay]

Pipes, That is an unfortunate thing that happened to the ball. It loosk as though it can be fixed without any proble. I understand your point but don't let it deter you away from purchasing any other Hammer equipment . Belive me if there was something I could do I would. I'll do my best to see if I can find anything out for you.

[pipes]

Pipes, That is an unfortunate thing that happened to the ball. It loosk as though it can be fixed without any proble. I understand your point but don't let it deter you away from purchasing any other Hammer equipment . Belive me if there was something I could do I would. I'll do my best to see if I can find anything out for you.

Bubba Thanks but don't sweat it I am not upset now I am just gona buy a new ball and move on .I like bowling to much to let a samll thing like this stop me ! :O) And I am going to go buy a coupple a Hammers next week :O) Maybe 3 just buy the BWB and BWP and get this one fixed . looks like from what I saw it a cost me less than $50.00 bucks to get it fixed up . Ive lost a lot more at a blackjack table in a few hours :O) :D

[BubbaRay]

Pieps you have a very good out look and it's good to hear you are going to buy 2 more Hammers. I bet when you get that one fixed you will not have any problems with the ball . Good luck on your new purchases and let us know how you like them.

[pipes]

Pieps you have a very good out look and it's good to hear you are going to buy 2 more Hammers. I bet when you get that one fixed you will not have any problems with the ball . Good luck on your new purchases and let us know how you like them.

Hey as bad as I am bowling right now a few dings warts or chunks missing won't hurt or help me :O) :eek:WEll they might HELP ME LOL

[bluerrpilot]

The house didnt offer to have that fixed ??

[pipes]

The house didnt offer to have that fixed ??

NOPE:mad: they sure didn't

[bluerrpilot]

Thats messed up ....It's CLEARLY house damage. What did they say when you asked them about it.

[pipes]

Ok I went BACK to the lane today that seems to have done the damage to my ball ! I got the general manager its a BIG place some were around a 150 lanes . Anyway She was real nice about it walked me into the Pro Shop and told them to fix what ever it took :O) . This Pro Shop was loaded with folks buying balls and stuff and VERY HAPPY customers . I talked to the pro he went out to the lanes with me and we had a talk after he watched me bowl about 10 frames and sugested a few things . I ended up ordering a BWB and BWP and he is fixing my BWS . Gona plug the BWS and redrill it free and fix it properly for my style a bowling . This guy is a true Profesional and cares .And when you get to the proper folks at this house there decent also ! The balls cost me $170.00 each with free finger and thumb slugs . He told one a my problems was my BWS was drilled to lose on the thumb causing me to drop the ball a LOT . sugested I let him put a diffrent type a finger insert and add thumb nserts in all 3 balls . there was NO CHARGE for them so he was NOT trying to just sell me somthing . He is even adding them to my old ball and replacing the ones in it with new for free so all of them a have the same proper fit !! What more can you ask :)

Wish I had went to this guy first !! It was a real pleasure to talk with him and deal with him. So looks like its all gona work out . From talking to the customers and him it looks like he really takes care of his customers and knows what he is doing !!!:D

I am a happy bowler again
I can get my balls tonight or in the morning but were leaving for a few days so it a be next week befor I can go get them !!

By the way He is selling every BWB he can get and drill up . 3 went out while I was there and 2 guys told me how much they like the one they have had a few days . They say the BWB hits like a truck :D

[BubbaRay]

Pipes I am glad everything worked out for the best for you. You did the right thing by going back to the house that you thought caused the damage. If the owners and managers are respectable people they will do everything to help a customer out and it sure looks like they did.

You made out real good with the Pro shop guy and also appears you have established a good relationship with him. Now that you have done this, he will always be there to help you out and offer his opinion. That is what a relationship between a customer and Pro Shop is all about. Good luck on your new purchases and let us know how you like them and how the BWS came out with the changes for you. Have a safe trip and see you when you return.

[Dave34]

Pipes, if you don't mind me asking, what Pro Shop/Bowling Alley was this at? I'm also in Southeast Michigan (Waterford) and am currently looking for a different pro shop to visit.

[pipes]

Thunderbowl in Allen Park . The guy was real decent in the Pro Shop . and the General manager of the house was great also . Really its the only place I am bowling right now just getting back into it after 30 years :D . They have a all you can bowl after 9:30 pm every night Sunday thru Thurday for $6.00 until closing at 1 am $8.00 I think on Fri and sat $1.00 a line during reg open bowling times. you ever want to come down let me know maybe we can meet up maybe even bowl a few :D

[pipes]

Pipes I am glad everything worked out for the best for you. You did the right thing by going back to the house that you thought caused the damage. If the owners and managers are respectable people they will do everything to help a customer out and it sure looks like they did.

You made out real good with the Pro shop guy and also appears you have established a good relationship with him. Now that you have done this, he will always be there to help you out and offer his opinion. That is what a relationship between a customer and Pro Shop is all about. Good luck on your new purchases and let us know how you like them and how the BWS came out with the changes for you. Have a safe trip and see you when you return.


Thanks Bubba it was a plesant experiance . The way things should be IMO anyway . I also think this a be a long term thing at the Pro Shop .

[bluerrpilot]

NICE..Glad to see it worked out for ya

[VmsTopGun]

Brians last day was last Thursday. As of now there isn't a replacement that I was informed of.

I received a response from Jeff Userry @ powerhouse. Looks like he's maning the hammer tech post for a while. He told me to take it back to the shop an push the button on the warrenty fix. Very pleasant response.

We'll give it a shot and see where it takes us.

http://www.powerhousebowling.com/proshop/ps_ballreviews.php