Looking for Help

[RickJr2008]

I have a stroker style when it comes to bowling. I just got back into bowling this year for the first time since I was a junior bowler. A friend of mine let me have his urethane hammer and it worked great but lacks some of the hook it once had. I recently bought the Widow Bite and after a few games of practice seem to have trouble finding the pocket. I have high speed on the ball around 18-19 MPH. I do not know my revs on the ball at this time. I am working to slow the ball down to allow for it to move like it should. With the Urethane I was able to lay the ball down on the second arrow from the right gutter and walk it into the pocket. I can not do that with this ball but have am having a hard time moving to the left and throwing it out and having it work back in. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can do this? I have attached a picture of the ball and how it is currently drilled.

[Rowdy]

Repeat after me: Trust the ball to come back.....The ball will come back.....move left,throw right.....the ball will come back....

With the drill on that thing you HAVE to move left some,throw it out to the right and watch the fun happen. It will come back. Promise.

[RickJr2008]

I trust the ball will come back but i guess my question is on the back swing. Now that I am moving left throwing right does my backswing change? Should I now being pushing the ball outisde then the backswing behind my back and follow through like i have been?

[Daorge]

Open your shoulders up in your approach and your backswing shouldn't change, I suggest having a pro or coach watch you bowl a few times and ask for a few suggestions, it helped me to figure out how to open my shoulders and keep the same swing.

[Stampy79]

Here is a simple way to adjust your backswing to SWING the ball. Instead of holding the ball inline with your right are (if your right handed) move the ball over in front of your chest at setup. Then when you start your swing, you have to swing it around your body and back ! Then, Bingo, its an inside out swing to get the ball out. I make small adjustments in my game like this all the time. Its a useful tool to use for fine adjustments that not many people think of

[Rowdy]

I trust the ball will come back but i guess my question is on the back swing. Now that I am moving left throwing right does my backswing change? Should I now being pushing the ball outisde then the backswing behind my back and follow through like i have been?

No. The backswing stays the same. instead of walking straight towards the foul line, you'll be moving at an angle.

[Stampy79]

That is not right. You are telling this guy to wander on the aproach ! You have to be able to adjust your backswing in todays game. I bet you think the pros all have a backswing that comes straight back annd straight through right ? Not happening ! What do you think about keeping your shoulders level at the line ? I gotta hear this one !

[Rowdy]

Stampy it's obviously past your nap time. So you work in a pro shop. . I did my time in the shop,too. Guys like you are always making this stuff way harder than it needs to be. Like I said to you before,not everyone is you. You can swing the ball around your body. Swell. You've been bowling for...how long? Decades? This guy just started up again. He has nowhere near your expierience with a swing. How about just getting him to throw it straight out first? And I never said to wander on the approach. I said to walk straight,but at an ANGLE to the foul line and throw it straight from there. So the ball will go out and then come back. Easy enough to do,right?

[RickJr2008]

Thanks for the help. I will try the angled approach Thursday and see how that works. I know right now I am on the right side of the lane on my approach. So moving over left a few boards will be different.

[Daorge]

I agree with Rowdy on this one, not saying Stampy is incorrect but people do have different styles, but I think for someone just starting out, not changing your swing would be better for you.

This article gives a good idea of what Rowdy is talking about with an "Angled approach" I've always just called it opening up my shoulders.

http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip24.htm

Opening the shoulders allows me to player "deeper" as well as keep my backswing straight, and I dont wander on my approach.

[Stampy79]

Nope couldnt agree with you more, just bowl like all the pictures youve seen over the years and keep those shoulders level and make sure you point them straight down the lane. If you learn that way, it may take you 5 or 6 years to perfect it, and then another 10 to change it ! No prob, just keep bowling the way they are telling you. See you in 2nd place or not making the cut most of the time. I have learned my lesson. If you want Pro Advise in the future, I would advise you to PM Rowdy, he seems to have all the answers to all the questions on this board. No matter what the subject, or how many times he has to backtrack and change his answer. He is after all the 2nd oldest guy (or Close) on this board and probably has the most knowledge,highest scores,highest avg, and most games rolled out of all of us except Bubba (whose advise I respect) Well, like I said, I should just stay off of here, there are too many TOES giving out advise for me to get any proper help to anyone. And by the way, you can open your shoulders by tilting your right shoulder down (Right hand bowler) on your release. That is opening your shoulders, not walking at an angle

[BubbaRay]

Stampy don't you go anywhere. I'll drag your butt back in here.

Well here is what I think. I do not advise walking or drifting during your approach. We all automaticall drift a few boards to start. Here is what I have taught and always will.

1) Hold the ball in front of your right breast or the right side of your chest.

2) Open the lane up by droping the right foot back 1/2 step of your left foot.

3) Open your shoulders towards your target. This opens the lane up without drifting.

4) Look at your target and then draw a line with your eyes from your target to the pocket.

6) With the opening of the shoulders and droping the right foot back 1/2 step, drawing a line with your eyes from target to poscket will give you the inside out line you are looking for.

5) Use your normal armswing during your approach

[Daorge]

Nope couldnt agree with you more, just bowl like all the pictures youve seen over the years and keep those shoulders level and make sure you point them straight down the lane. If you learn that way, it may take you 5 or 6 years to perfect it, and then another 10 to change it ! No prob, just keep bowling the way they are telling you. See you in 2nd place or not making the cut most of the time. I have learned my lesson. If you want Pro Advise in the future, I would advise you to PM Rowdy, he seems to have all the answers to all the questions on this board. No matter what the subject, or how many times he has to backtrack and change his answer. He is after all the 2nd oldest guy (or Close) on this board and probably has the most knowledge,highest scores,highest avg, and most games rolled out of all of us except Bubba (whose advise I respect) Well, like I said, I should just stay off of here, there are too many TOES giving out advise for me to get any proper help to anyone. And by the way, you can open your shoulders by tilting your right shoulder down (Right hand bowler) on your release. That is opening your shoulders, not walking at an angle


Stampy, I wasn't saying that you were wrong, I think any and all advice can be helpful, but I've never understood why change your backswing if you already have one that is well timed and working for you? If all you need to do is open your shoulders to get the ball out there, why change the swing?

and Bubba, that is pretty much the exact pointers my coach gave me when I first started, except some slight variations.

Great advice

[bluerrpilot]

You can do both..... Whatever works for you. If you normally have a straight back and through arm swing, then your arm needs to be parallel to the target line. Whatever you have to do to your body to make that happen, do it. I don't recommend altering the pendulum motion of the back swing simple because it could cause you to come around the ball as opposed to straight through it.

[Rowdy]

Stampy don't you go anywhere. I'll drag your butt back in here.

Well here is what I think. I do not advise walking or drifting during your approach. We all automaticall drift a few boards to start. Here is what I have taught and always will.

1) Hold the ball in front of your right breast or the right side of your chest.

2) Open the lane up by droping the right foot back 1/2 step of your left foot.

3) Open your shoulders towards your target. This opens the lane up without drifting.

4) Look at your target and then draw a line with your eyes from your target to the pocket.

6) With the opening of the shoulders and droping the right foot back 1/2 step, drawing a line with your eyes from target to poscket will give you the inside out line you are looking for.

5) Use your normal armswing during your approach

My goodness,that descibes.....ME! :)

[BubbaRay]

It also descibes me and alot of Pro's. This is what I teach and usually has a good outcome 99% of the time

[Stampy79]

Thats what I am saying. To adjust a bit for the inside out swing, you just start with the ball a bit closer to the center of your chest, not inline with your arm. It is not as drastic a change as you may think. It allows you to swing freely at your target that is to the right. If you are in league some night and you get a case of the PULLSEYS and we all have at one time. Just try this and you will see what I mean. It is a great way to adjust your swing. You will normally compensate for the swing angle and not actually loop your swing, but adjust it to aim at your outside line target better. This will also help you get the PDW follow through up and to the right with a free hand ! And I know none of us wants this right ! ;) I also think alot of people will benefit from this as far as getting the ball closer to your ankle at delivery (Which is another prob with most newbies)

[Rowdy]

Target to the right? Every shot is a swing shot? How do you throw straight up the 3 board then? Every ball would be in the ditch.

[VmsTopGun]

I think RickJr had it self-diagnosed correctly. It's a speed issue. we never asked it the ball was picking up it's roll a few feet before the pin deck or it was just revving it self into the pit? If he's moving left and its not comming back , it could be buring up all it energy.

Keep the ball clean, slow it down, and see what happens.
BTW do you walk to the line in a casual manner or move quickly??

[BubbaRay]

Buy the drill on that widow it should come back to the poscket. One this I might add here. Could he be running into and big over / under condition? People have been throwing this Bite who do not have high revs and have no problem making to the pocket. I wonder if it is a condition problem also.

[RickJr2008]

I had a pretty quick approach before i moved closer to slow it down. As far as the condition could you please explain that to me? I have saw some information about that but I would like to know more. I have not done anything to the ball except have it drilled this week.

[Daorge]

I had a pretty quick approach before i moved closer to slow it down. As far as the condition could you please explain that to me? I have saw some information about that but I would like to know more. I have not done anything to the ball except have it drilled this week.

Here is a great post by Bubba that explains lane conditions a bit.

http://forums.hammerbowling.com/showthread.php?t=4829

[RickJr2008]

I thought he was talking about the condition of the ball. I have seen on these boards about making balls 2000 or 4000.

[Daorge]

That would be a surface change to a ball, by sanding it to a rougher grit (lower number, say 500, 1000, 2000 or 4000 abralon). The lower the number the earlier the ball will roll / read the lane.

Your BWB is at 4000 abralon out of box, taking it down to 2000 would cause it to break earlier and so forth, people use surface changes to match lane conditions as well.

Generally for oiler conditions you would want a ball that can read the lane early so taking the surface down to 2000 or 1000 may do wonders compared to 4000. On drier conditions a lot of people take it to 4000 abralon or add polish to the ball which will allow it to skid further before it snaps (It holds its energy longer with polish)

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/tOil.htm

Is a good idea of what lane conditions are as well.

[Daorge]

Buy the drill on that widow it should come back to the poscket. One this I might add here. Could he be running into and big over / under condition? People have been throwing this Bite who do not have high revs and have no problem making to the pocket. I wonder if it is a condition problem also.

As far as Bubba was referring to, it could be that your using a stronger ball then the lane conditions need. Meaning that your throwing a bite on a light oil lane condition which would generally cause it to burn up its energy and not have any left to flip / return to the pocket. Adding polish is a great way to help the ball store energy if this is the problem.

Ask the manager of the alley what kind of oil pattern they put down, or perhaps a video of you bowling so we can see your release / ball reaction to give a more definate answer as what the problem might be.

[Rowdy]

The drill on his Bite is skid/flip for a high track ball. I wonder if he's really throwing a high track. That might explain a lot.

[Stampy79]

Well Rowdy, not to doubt your proffesional opinion, but in his first post he was talking about moving left and swinging the ball a bit. That is what I was replying to. Obviously you cant play that arm swing with an outside line. Well most of us cant anyway. I would not be surprised with your expertise and vast experience that you could pull it off !

[chevy02]

actually among all the arguing there is a lot of really good information in this post from all partys involved

[Rowdy]

Well Rowdy, not to doubt your proffesional opinion, but in his first post he was talking about moving left and swinging the ball a bit. That is what I was replying to. Obviously you cant play that arm swing with an outside line. Well most of us cant anyway. I would not be surprised with your expertise and vast experience that you could pull it off !

If I lay the ball down on the 7,I can swing it out to the 1 board. Nerve wracking,but a crowd pleaser.:) That count?

[Stampy79]

When you can play up the twig, I will be impressed. Hows that. Hardest, most nerve racking shot in bowling.