Kegel takes a HUGE step in the right direction

[agroves]

http://www.kegel.net/patternlibrary/kegel-navigation-patterns.htm

This is a big step in the right direction for our sport/game.

Providing a tiered system to competition. For those desiring more challenging conditions, you can move up to the Challenge series and then sport series patterns.

I expect something like this for the USBC OPEN. Doesn't it seem awfully coincidental that the OPEN is fixing to kick off and KEGEL releases these patterns?

http://www.kegel.net/patternlibrary/default.asp

Andrew

[Street Racer]

i really like that kegel has done..

should change tenpin bowling a little bit

[MorganGrafixx]

Good post Street. I wonder how long it will be before it can be fully-integrated into the houses.

On a side-note...Being a Graphic Designer, I love the logos for the patterns. I really appreciate PROFESSIONAL design work. Too often I see companies with logos that look like cartoonish crap. kegel has put some serious thought into corporate identity and image branding. The site looks really clean and professional. Very nice work, whomever is the designer.

[Rowdy]

Great idea. Too bad theres only a handful of houses that'll actually use this. Stop,stop. That's not any cynicism coming through. It's just cold,hard fact. First,your house has to have a Kegel lane machine that can lay the patterns down. How many of you just had your house eliminated? Second,even those patterns will cost additional money in oil alone. How many more houses just bit the dust? Third,those Kegel patterns are NOT USBC sport patterns,therefore illegal to use for sport averages. We need a Rules change first. Make everything BUT a THS legal for any USBC league play. Then they can come out with all the slick looking presentations Kegel wants. This is putting the cart before the horse.

[slap]

what is a "usbc" sport pattern?

[Rowdy]

what is a "usbc" sport pattern?

Funny. You know what the five of them are. And those are the only five approved for sport leagues. As per the edict of the USBC.

[slap]

I see the confusion. Not all sport leagues are pba experience leagues. Sport leagues can design their own patterns as long as they meet the requirements.

http://www.bowl.com/downloads/pdf/SportBowling/SBTechManual_07-08.pdf

Requirements
1. Each lane shall be stripped prior to oiling of the Sport Bowling condition.
2. There shall be no bowling prior to practice balls for a Sport Bowling league or tournament competition once the lanes are conditioned.
3. Tapes will be taken at 22’ and 2’ before the end of the pattern.
4. The ratio of oil for all tapes taken shall be a maximum of 3:1.
5. The ratio shall be defined as the average amount of oil (in units) between boards Left 18 to right 18 divided by the average amount of oil (in units) between boards R3 - R7 and L3 - L7, respectively.
6. The amount of oil measured on the outside boards (average of R/L3 - 7) at 22’ must be greater than 10 units, and the amount of oil measured on the center boards (average of L18 to R18) must not exceed 80 units of oil.
7. The maximum amount of oil from boards R8 to R17 and L8 to L17 shall not be greater than 130 percent of the average of boards L18 to R18.
8. The minimum amount of oil from boards R8 to R17 shall not be less than 70 percent of the average of boards R3 to R7.
9. The minimum amount of oil from boards L8 to L17 shall not be less than 70 percent of the average of boards L3 to L7.
10. There is no pattern length minimum or maximum.
11. There is no lengthwise ratio requirement.
12. All other USBC requirements are still in effect (i.e., three-unit minimum).

[Rowdy]

Numbers 3 through 9. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! Whew!!! Man,my sides hurt from laughing so much. I can't remember the last time I saw a house pull a tape on a lane. Wait,I can. It was back in 1992 or '93. Hang on,I gotta make a phone call. Mikey says he's NEVER taped a lane in 12 years of being the lane guy at two different houses around here. He just programs them in the machine and lets it do it's thing and hope for the best.

[Alucious]

I know for a fact that tapes must be sent in to have your house sport-sanctioned. I was present at our house when the tapes were taken for our first PBA league.

[slap]

Numbers 3 through 9. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! Whew!!! Man,my sides hurt from laughing so much. I can't remember the last time I saw a house pull a tape on a lane. Wait,I can. It was back in 1992 or '93. Hang on,I gotta make a phone call. Mikey says he's NEVER taped a lane in 12 years of being the lane guy at two different houses around here. He just programs them in the machine and lets it do it's thing and hope for the best.

Around here that's the number one reason why the centers don't want sport leagues. THEY DON'T WANT TO RUN THE TAPES.... [/rant] :)

[Rowdy]

I know for a fact that tapes must be sent in to have your house sport-sanctioned. I was present at our house when the tapes were taken for our first PBA league.

You actually SAW the guy from the USBC? The one with the seeing eye dog and white cane with the red tip? How many lanes did they pull tape from? Bet it was the "Championship Pair". USBC Rules state that only one "pair" of lanes has to be taped. They'll trust you on all the other lanes. I saw a house pull a tape one night. They oiled up ONE pair of lanes and pulled the tape. Then they reoiled all the lanes with God knows what and called it a sanctioned sport league. Many months later the lane guy told me that all the patterns were was an old christmas tree pattern. The house swore it was laying down PBA patterns,they just reversed the tree every other week.

[Sparehater]

My sport league takes tapes every week.

[Rowdy]

My sport league takes tapes every week.

So YOU'RE the one making all the others look bad.....

[Sparehater]

So YOU'RE the one making all the others look bad.....
Wut are u talking about?

[grayfin68]

Wut are u talking about?

Well, if you read back a few posts, it appears that Rowdy has trust issues with certain lane managers.

Like your house, we had a designated rep (who is also our local USBC rep) verify the tapes each week during our PBA Experience league.. Our house has no "championship pair" and has no reason to cheat the bowlers out of their oil patterns.

[slap]

sport leagues require a pair to be taped each night and transmitted to the usbc.

[Street Racer]

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pacing for a huge sport tournament(the one i showed yous before), spots were free, we just have no claim in the prize money(i was in it for the experience anyway)..

and they are using the sport patterns!

5 games on each of these patterns
Pattern1 FIRST Block; DEAD MANS CURVE
Pattern 2 Second Block HIGHWAY TO HELL
Pattern 3 Third Block WINDING ROAD

they are using the boardwalk, but seems i am only pacing, i cant advance to the finals, which doesnt bother me...

omg cant wait now, free bowling on the newer patterns! woot

i shall write up a review for each of the patterns....

[Rowdy]

sport leagues require a pair to be taped each night and transmitted to the usbc.

Houses here must use a different Rule book. That has to be it.

[grayfin68]

Houses here must use a different Rule book. That has to be it.

I guess we're just fortunate here. The lane manager even let me watch them tape the lanes and then showed me how they translate in accordance with the guidelines. There is some leeway allowed due to variances in machines and if I remember correctly the oil volume was leaning closer to the higher side of the limit.

[slap]

Houses here must use a different Rule book. That has to be it.


You and I both know there are houses that put down sport patterns and call it a sport league but I doubt if they are certified. Last summer I bowled in two leagues, a certified pba exp league and a non certified sport league. Both put down the patterns but only one house wanted to comply with the taping requirements.

[grayfin68]

You and I both know there are houses that put down sport patterns and call it a sport league but I doubt if they are certified. Last summer I bowled in two leagues, a certified pba exp league and a non certified sport league. Both put down the patterns but only one house wanted to comply with the taping requirements.

I need to move somewhere closer to more bowling centers. Down here, we just established the PBA Exp summer league but that's our only chance at anything other than a THS. I need to find some houses that have sport shot leagues or tourneys.

[Rowdy]

My beef is with the house's that are advertising a USBC CERTIFIED Sport League or a PBA Expierence League and then not doing any of the leg work to follow through. No USBC certification on the standings sheets. The league never shows up on bowl.com to check averages or standings. Therefore,in my mind,the bowlers have been lied to in order to get their money. What's the use in paying extra dues for a sport league that isn't what it's promised to be? And don't tell me to bitch to the USBC. They don't want to hear it. I worked the complaint all the way to Greendale, through all the proper channels. They looked and said that they WERE getting the dues for a sport league and thats as far as they would go with it. Their advice was to not re-sign with the league if I didn't like what was going on. Any wonder I can't stand the USBC these days?

[Rowdy]

I need to move somewhere closer to more bowling centers. Down here, we just established the PBA Exp summer league but that's our only chance at anything other than a THS. I need to find some houses that have sport shot leagues or tourneys.

Two Sport leagues in Fort Meade,MD. One in Randallstown, Ellicott City and Cumberland,MD.

Thats it. FIVE whole leagues for a state the size of Maryland. Good Luck,you'll need it.

[grayfin68]

Two Sport leagues in Fort Meade,MD. One in Randallstown, Ellicott City and Cumberland,MD.

Thats it. FIVE whole leagues for a state the size of Maryland. Good Luck,you'll need it.

Too far away to join a league but if there were tournaments, I could make a trip now and then.

[idlehourlegend]

I need to move somewhere closer to more bowling centers. Down here, we just established the PBA Exp summer league but that's our only chance at anything other than a THS. I need to find some houses that have sport shot leagues or tourneys.

you should be happy with that, we dont even have that much around here.

[Rowdy]

Too far away to join a league but if there were tournaments, I could make a trip now and then.

And do what? Finish near the bottom because you can't get any league time in? That's putting you at a competitive disadvantage if ever there was one.

[grayfin68]

you should be happy with that, we dont even have that much around here.

We have two bowling centers close by. One is a shit hole that nobody that has access to the base goes to. The other is on the Navy base and is a nice house that is run well but is very small (only 12 lanes).

So, there is very little open bowling and no tournaments. Other than that, the closest other two centers are 45 min and an hour away. With gas prices, I don't like driving far if I don't have to.

[grayfin68]

And do what? Finish near the bottom because you can't get any league time in? That's putting you at a competitive disadvantage if ever there was one.

How else am I going to get experience on those patterns?

[Rowdy]

I need to move somewhere closer to more bowling centers. Down here, we just established the PBA Exp summer league but that's our only chance at anything other than a THS. I need to find some houses that have sport shot leagues or tourneys.

That's my other beef. Who decided that Sport or PBA leagues should only be considered as a summer fill in league? That is seriously pissing me off,that the USBC would let houses get away with denegrating the league like that. "Oh,it's not good enough for our regular league bowlers. But we'll throw it out there for the summer losers to roll on."

[Rowdy]

How else am I going to get experience on those patterns?

At tournament prices?? Thats kinda steep for practice games,don't you think?

[grayfin68]

That's my other beef. Who decided that Sport or PBA leagues should only be considered as a summer fill in league? That is seriously pissing me off,that the USBC would let houses get away with denegrating the league like that. "Oh,it's not good enough for our regular league bowlers. But we'll throw it out there for the summer losers to roll on."

There's not enough interest here, that's why the people who want to play in the PBA Experience League are relegated to the summer. The other thing is that there are already established THS leagues that fill all the available league time slots and aren't about to give up their league.

It's a shame the off-base bowling center is run so poorly because maybe we could do more but the place is a shit hole, they charge way more than the base and people's gear is always getting damaged there.

[grayfin68]

At tournament prices?? Thats kinda steep for practice games,don't you think?

Again, what other options are there?

[Rowdy]

Again, what other options are there?

Glad you asked. Pass a USBC Rule that states that EVERY league be on a sport shot. Raise the dues to pay for it. Yes,your average will go down for a while,but your 200 will be the same as my 200. Some guys will walk. Let 'em. Some ego's will be bruised. Tough. But everyone will be singing off the same sheet for the first time in history. And that's a good thing.

[Alucious]

Two Sport leagues in Fort Meade,MD. One in Randallstown, Ellicott City and Cumberland,MD.

Thats it. FIVE whole leagues for a state the size of Maryland. Good Luck,you'll need it.

I bowl in Cumberland. MD. We don't have a large league, 8 teams of 4. High average is about 198ish. Last winter the sport league had almost 14 teams, but so many people said they would not come back if it remained a sport league. Bowling can't afford to lose almost 60% of its bowlers when we switch to sport.

[Alucious]

You actually SAW the guy from the USBC? The one with the seeing eye dog and white cane with the red tip? How many lanes did they pull tape from? Bet it was the "Championship Pair". USBC Rules state that only one "pair" of lanes has to be taped. They'll trust you on all the other lanes. I saw a house pull a tape one night. They oiled up ONE pair of lanes and pulled the tape. Then they reoiled all the lanes with God knows what and called it a sanctioned sport league. Many months later the lane guy told me that all the patterns were was an old christmas tree pattern. The house swore it was laying down PBA patterns,they just reversed the tree every other week.

Yes, our local USBC head was there to take the tapes. He took them off the first pair oiled, and last pair oiled.

[slap]

My beef is with the house's that are advertising a USBC CERTIFIED Sport League or a PBA Expierence League and then not doing any of the leg work to follow through. No USBC certification on the standings sheets. The league never shows up on bowl.com to check averages or standings. Therefore,in my mind,the bowlers have been lied to in order to get their money. What's the use in paying extra dues for a sport league that isn't what it's promised to be? And don't tell me to bitch to the USBC. They don't want to hear it. I worked the complaint all the way to Greendale, through all the proper channels. They looked and said that they WERE getting the dues for a sport league and thats as far as they would go with it. Their advice was to not re-sign with the league if I didn't like what was going on. Any wonder I can't stand the USBC these days?

That's a legitimate beef too. Once someone throws a score in that league and is denied a sport award because the league didn't follow the regulations, then you'll have some others complaining with you.

At least the one house here was upfront with the league not being sport sanctioned.

[Rowdy]

I bowl in Cumberland. MD. We don't have a large league, 8 teams of 4. High average is about 198ish. Last winter the sport league had almost 14 teams, but so many people said they would not come back if it remained a sport league. Bowling can't afford to lose almost 60% of its bowlers when we switch to sport.

Really? Can we afford the way it's going now? We are going to have to bite the bullet sooner or later. I'd rather do it sooner and not lose another generation of bowlers to the ineptitude of the USBC and people who think we can't "afford" it. And it won't be anywhere near 60%. Where did you get this number from??? Thin air? Even the USBC has estimated that it would only be around 3 to 5%.

[grayfin68]

Glad you asked. Pass a USBC Rule that states that EVERY league be on a sport shot. Raise the dues to pay for it. Yes,your average will go down for a while,but your 200 will be the same as my 200. Some guys will walk. Let 'em. Some ego's will be bruised. Tough. But everyone will be singing off the same sheet for the first time in history. And that's a good thing.

The problem is a LACK of INTEREST for people to bowl on sport shots. There just aren't enough competitive bowlers; at least at our bowling center. This is why we are stuck doing the PBA Experience in the Summer. You're not going to convince a bunch of recreational league bowlers to pay more dues just so Ego Johnny can have a tougher shot.

[Rowdy]

The problem is a LACK of INTEREST for people to bowl on sport shots. There just aren't enough competitive bowlers; at least at our bowling center. This is why we are stuck doing the PBA Experience in the Summer. You're not going to convince a bunch of recreational league bowlers to pay more dues just so Ego Johnny can have a tougher shot.

Not a tougher shot. The SAME shot,from house to house. Your Shark pattern and my Shark pattern should be the same,within tolerances. League bowlers will roll on whatever shot is laid down. Edith's Flower Shop will still roll in their regular league,no matter what the pattern. And dues go up all the time,at least this time we would be getting something for our money.

[grayfin68]

Not a tougher shot. The SAME shot,from house to house. Your Shark pattern and my Shark pattern should be the same,within tolerances. League bowlers will roll on whatever shot is laid down. Edith's Flower Shop will still roll in their regular league,no matter what the pattern. And dues go up all the time,at least this time we would be getting something for our money.

Why would it take more dues to get a rule implemented? I don't see that being a financial issue. Then you have enforcement that would have to follow.

As for the PBA Experience league, there are already rules in place that cover the lane conditions which include the taping requirement.

[Cobalt]

Not a tougher shot. The SAME shot,from house to house. Your Shark pattern and my Shark pattern should be the same,within tolerances.

I can't agree more. I hate it when someone comes to our house and says our lanes suck because "I shot a 300 over at XY lanes!"
Well, yeah, when the oil pattern is designed to throw your ball into the pocket no matter what the angle, I could drop 300's all day. Our house shot is forgiving, but you still have to be within 2 boards of your shot to make it back to the pocket.

[Alucious]

60% was me rounding, and mistyping, the percentage of 6 teams leaving from 14 original teams. 40% is still a good bit.

[pba6285]

Numbers 3 through 9. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! Whew!!! Man,my sides hurt from laughing so much. I can't remember the last time I saw a house pull a tape on a lane. Wait,I can. It was back in 1992 or '93. Hang on,I gotta make a phone call. Mikey says he's NEVER taped a lane in 12 years of being the lane guy at two different houses around here. He just programs them in the machine and lets it do it's thing and hope for the best.


If you bowl a Sport Certified League or Tournament they have to be pulled. I pull tapes every monday for pur PBA Exp League. We have to fax the graphs to USBC weekly or no sport awards will be issued for that weeks awards.

Most centers don't have a tape readeror the pick-up device, If that is the case then it is the associations responsibility to pull the tape. (Needles to say the Assn lent us their pick-up device and tape reader. If the assn doesn't have a tape reader the tapes must be sent to usbc so they can read the tapes. We even had a week where we sent the graphs in and then usbc called and requested the tapes to verify the graphs.

[Rowdy]

I note with amusement your use of the word "Certified". That's what was promised to bowlers who signed up for sport leagues around here. Turns out that yes,the bowlers paid the proper dues for the sport league. The USBC says they got the cash. Also turns out that no,the USBC has NEVER seen tape one from any of the sport leagues that rolled around here this or last season. And the USBC couldn't care less. Complaints were filed in a timely fashion,and followed USBC procedeure. They all fell on deaf ears in Greendale.
So,where's the enforcement? We haven't seen anything except a Assoc. rep whore swore the matter would be looked into. I guess they're still looking.
As for the dues to pay for the Rule thing:It doesn't take more dues to GET a Rule passed, it takes more in dues to pay for the extra help needed to implement the Rule. Reading tapes,graphs and lane enforcement,that sort of thing.

[pba6285]

Well it seems you need to hold someone's feet to the fire. We had a week where we could not get the pattern to get to 3.0 and we had to have everyone sign off on the non complying lane condition form. we had 3 bowlers refuse to bowl. We post the graphs and the Excel spreadsheet that proves out the sport pattern on the standings board each week. Ask to see the graphws and the spreadsheet.

[Rowdy]

Who's feet would you like me to hold? No one in Greendale gives a damn. Our local association doesn't give a damn. The house obviously doesn't give a damn. The league officers don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. The league and the house claim to run a USBC certified league. Greendale says,No tape? No problem! And the house can't figure out why most of the good bowlers jumped ship,rather than suffer through this misery. And why the last time the USBC rep showed his face,he had to leave in one big hurry. Something about 30+ guys heading his way.......

[grayfin68]

Who's feet would you like me to hold? No one in Greendale gives a damn. Our local association doesn't give a damn. The house obviously doesn't give a damn. The league officers don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. The league and the house claim to run a USBC certified league. Greendale says,No tape? No problem! And the house can't figure out why most of the good bowlers jumped ship,rather than suffer through this misery. And why the last time the USBC rep showed his face,he had to leave in one big hurry. Something about 30+ guys heading his way.......

Sounds to me that the USBC isn't your problem so much as the person your region has elected to represent you combined with your lane manager.

[Alucious]

For all this "USBC wont so this" and "USBC rep that", why don't you just run the league yourself, or go out for USBC rep?

[Rowdy]

For all this "USBC wont so this" and "USBC rep that", why don't you just run the league yourself, or go out for USBC rep?

I tried. Seems people don't want someone who tells the truth,even if it hurts some. They want someone who will lie to their face and tell 'em everythings fine. It appears to be a congenital birth defect of people born in South Carolina. As long as you're polite and ask after their Momma,you can be the biggest cheat alive and they'll still think you're a swell guy. Go figure.

[Rowdy]

Sounds to me that the USBC isn't your problem so much as the person your region has elected to represent you combined with your lane manager.

Elected??? When was the vote???

The USBC isn't the problem??? Who do you think is supposed to oversee all of this? Since they get the cash,they get the responsibility of making sure the bowler gets what is paid for.

[grayfin68]

Elected??? When was the vote???

The USBC isn't the problem??? Who do you think is supposed to oversee all of this? Since they get the cash,they get the responsibility of making sure the bowler gets what is paid for.

You have to attend the meetings when they vote. Also, if you want to vote on issues, you need to attend the meetings in numbers because it takes 100 people from your region in order to vote on anything. The USBC tries very hard to get people to show up for these meetings and rarely get enough people to show up. They even provide a nice luncheon free of charge but that's still not enough most of the time. I'm going up with a group from our lanes in a few weeks with our local rep so we can vote on issues. Fortunately, our guy is a straight shooter and does his job by representing us properly.

In fact, he is working with our PBA Pro this summer to put on the PBA Experience league again. I talked to them both yesterday and it's a go for sure and we are getting lots of interest this time around.

[Rowdy]

I see our meeting is going to be held alomg with our State Open. Clean on the other side of the state. Wasn't going to make the trip but I may have to go and see whats up.

[grayfin68]

I see our meeting is going to be held alomg with our State Open. Clean on the other side of the state. Wasn't going to make the trip but I may have to go and see whats up.

Well, I hope you go and get enough representation for your region. On a side note, with all of this new interest in the Summer PBA Experience league, we may be able to convert one of our more competitive winter leagues to a PBA Experience if enough of those folks like the summer version. Friday and Tuesday nights are a possibility because that's where most of the competitive bowlers roll at our house. I'm starting to get encouraged about the possibility whereas a few weeks ago, I didn't think we had a snowball's chance in hell of having a PBA Experience winter league.