Why am I rolling over my thumb?

[can-ham]

I've been reading about release and have excepted the fact that I'm high track, even thought I might be a full roller.

The thing is sometimes my track goes over the thumb hole. You can hear it going down the lane and see it in the oil lines. Now I had my Beat'n drilled hight track #1 and it doesn't go over the thumb hole, but comes very close to it. But my big block pretty much rolls over the thumb hole every time. Now I know with out seeing me bowl you can't make a judgment. But I'm wondering if there are any suggestions to watch for. Cupping the wrist too much ect.

Here is an old video (http://members.shaw.ca/greg_g/strike_04152007.mov).

[JaraTo]

Ah yes, I had this problem before too. After some coaching I learned that I was hitting up on the ball sometimes. Wasn't following all the way through but making for of a pull up motion once the ball to my ankle in an effort to get more revs. Could that be the problem?

[can-ham]

Ah yes, I had this problem before too. After some coaching I learned that I was hitting up on the ball sometimes. Wasn't following all the way through but making for of a pull up motion once the ball to my ankle in an effort to get more revs. Could that be the problem?

Yes that is very likely. What did you do to over come this problem?

[JaraTo]

I think for me it was working on my timing and conciously thinking about getting a full arm extension when I released the ball. You actually rob yourself of revs by pulling up on ball instead of following all the way through. How comfortable is your thumb hole?

[JaraTo]

Best bet is to seek experienced help though. There are several factors that can cause this which ultimately lead back to the release or worst case your thumb pitch in the ball.

[can-ham]

I think for me it was working on my timing and conciously thinking about getting a full arm extension when I released the ball. You actually rob yourself of revs by pulling up on ball instead of following all the way through. How comfortable is your thumb hole?

I just started to use tape this year. Before that my thumb hole was quite loose so I was gripping the ball unnecessarily. Unfortunately it is hard to find a good coach up where I am. I may try to book one during my next trip to the states.

[Street Racer]

i use to have this problem, due to me using a low flaring ball(i still have this problem with my black ice)

i just started using balls that flared... lol

hand release a little as well...

[bluerrpilot]

Its not surprising that the NMB doesnt hit the thumb, its a very high flaring ball. But the big block should also flare quite a bit too. Could you post some pix of the balls and there layouts. I have to assume that your pap is around 5 1/2"

[can-ham]

Its not surprising that the NMB doesnt hit the thumb, its a very high flaring ball. But the big block should also flare quite a bit too. Could you post some pix of the balls and there layouts. I have to assume that your pap is around 5 1/2"

hey Blue, Unfortunatly I can't get you a picture of the big block or the beat'n as they are in my locker at the ally. I'll try to post the pick of my blade as it is similar to the big bolck and also rolled over the thumb.

So last night at league and practicing after I was trying some techniques from the release articles. When I tried messing with tilt, it made a difference. But over all my bowling was poor last night, we rolled beside the wall, and my spare shooting was off. Over all I averaged 18pins under per game!:(

[uberamd]

hey Blue, Unfortunatly I can't get you a picture of the big block or the beat'n as they are in my locker at the ally. I'll try to post the pick of my blade as it is similar to the big bolck and also rolled over the thumb.

So last night at league and practicing after I was trying some techniques from the release articles. When I tried messing with tilt, it made a difference. But over all my bowling was poor last night, we rolled beside the wall, and my spare shooting was off. Over all I averaged 18pins under per game!:(

That is my favorite place to bowl, as long as its the left wall.

[Stampy79]

In my honest opinion, after what you have posted in here, I think you are trying to overturn the ball. Thats just my opinion after reading between the lines about balls not finishing and so on.

[can-ham]

In my honest opinion, after what you have posted in here, I think you are trying to overturn the ball. Thats just my opinion after reading between the lines about balls not finishing and so on.

This is a fair assumption. I've been told this in the past and have tried toadapt a more free swing. But Yeah my buddie filmed me with his phone last night and it looked similar to the video I posted. At release I'm trying to lift and my arm swings up then out to the right. I need to get a coach, has anyoine tried video coaching?

[Rowdy]

hey Blue, Unfortunatly I can't get you a picture of the big block or the beat'n as they are in my locker at the ally. I'll try to post the pick of my blade as it is similar to the big bolck and also rolled over the thumb.

So last night at league and practicing after I was trying some techniques from the release articles. When I tried messing with tilt, it made a difference. But over all my bowling was poor last night, we rolled beside the wall, and my spare shooting was off. Over all I averaged 18pins under per game!:(

Optical illusion. The wall messes up the eye. Next time you're next to the wall try looking just past the foul line about a foot and a half for a mark to shoot at. At least you didn't have a pole to worry about between lanes.

[JaraTo]

Ya know last night I noticed that I still tend to this. I originally thought I was flaring over it, but now I suspect it's my initial roll because I can hear it rolling over it during the initial skid. :(

[Rowdy]

This is a fair assumption. I've been told this in the past and have tried toadapt a more free swing. But Yeah my buddie filmed me with his phone last night and it looked similar to the video I posted. At release I'm trying to lift and my arm swings up then out to the right. I need to get a coach, has anyoine tried video coaching?

Put the video on here. You'll get all the video coaching you can stand. Thank God Neo didn't take any film of me the other day.

[bigsexyhammer]

At least you didn't have a pole to worry about between lanes.

:D No freakin joke.... Man that brought back memories. My home house when I was a kid had a couple lanes where there was a danged pole right smack in the way when you needed to get way left or right... :rolleyes:

[JaraTo]

I think Rowdy actually meant a pole down the lanes in between lanes. A gap where the ball return channel usually is.... then a pole

[can-ham]

So I finally uploaded the videos. Keep in mind these are taken from a cell phone so the quality is poor. I hope to do a video session in the next few weeks.

Any way I'm trying some of the techniques from Ron's articles.

http://members.shaw.ca/greg_g/112.3G2
http://members.shaw.ca/greg_g/111.3G2

All feedback is appreciated.

[can-ham]

Where are my coaches at?

Any feed back is appreciated.

[uberamd]

Reaaaaaally hard to tell from those videos they are small, were they taken with a camera phone or could you upload larger ones?

[JoshWithrow]

Where are my coaches at?

Any feed back is appreciated.

I recently had this discussion with a coach. His answer? If it works don't change it. The only ball that doesn't flare off of my thumb is my Tuff ;) And I don't mind on that one anyway.

[blistershurt]

A teammate of mine does the same thing, and I think it might be from overcupping your wrist and not giving the ball enough time to release, if the ball flares alot from the thumb, your track will go from the thumb and out, which will make the ball roll over the thumb. A good way to check to see if it is your release (not enough time to uncup your wrist maybe) would be to video tape it.

Also, pitches could be off...you get older, you lose hand flexibility (I used the O word...)

[uberamd]

A teammate of mine does the same thing, and I think it might be from overcupping your wrist and not giving the ball enough time to release, if the ball flares alot from the thumb, your track will go from the thumb and out, which will make the ball roll over the thumb. A good way to check to see if it is your release (not enough time to uncup your wrist maybe) would be to video tape it.

Also, pitches could be off...you get older, you lose hand flexibility (I used the O word...)

It did appear that he was doing a lot of cupping from the small vids.

[blistershurt]

i know he does alot of cupping, but it all comes down to how fast he can uncup and get out of the ball

Also, another way to fix this is just to put some side roll on the ball, your track will lower. Just a slight turn.

[JaraTo]

i know he does alot of cupping, but it all comes down to how fast he can uncup and get out of the ball

Also, another way to fix this is just to put some side roll on the ball, your track will lower. Just a slight turn.

I was just going to mention that as well. If you put more forward roll on the ball you'll throw more of a end over end ball ala WRW which will cause that.

[can-ham]

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I'll try and get a real video up in a few weeks.

It's funny because my Beat'n doesn't roll over the thumb (but it is extremely close) and I throw it the same. But Josh brings up a great point if your bowling well who cares. But as a student of the game if I can lean new and better ways to release the ball then I'll try. The bowl 4 fun articles I think help and when I twist my wrist slightly in I tend not to be over the thumb, but it's not comfortable yet.

Thanks again for the advice hammerheads!

[SAW]

Well, I had also this problem with tracks over thumbhole (sounded like train going on rails...urgh...). I changed two things - footwork and fitted the ball properly with more tapes. If the track goes over thumb hole - it means that thumb is not coming out properly - it either stucks OR falls out too soon. So try to feel whether it could be the problem. The second thing I changed (probably this will not work for You) is footwork, because it is one way how to fix the problem of ball going behind back in backswing. If the ball goes behind the back, it means You have to redirect the ball which includes applying forse, including sqeezing the ball - result the same - ball leaves too late.
Well that is my experience.

[madaba]

I am having this issue with rolling over my finger holes and thumb. I was even at one point flaring over my finger bridge and to the right of the thumb hole with my bws. My bv doesn't flare and tracks over my finger and thumb holes as well. I'm a stroker and have always had a high track but lately (not sure how long really) i'm rolling over the holes. What are the most common causes of this that I could address?

[blistershurt]

You might want to have the drill looked at then. If you look under the drilling section at Hammer's site, there are what they call "Flare Safe" zones for high and low track players, if you have the pin in a Flare Safe zone for your track, your ball will not roll over the fingers flaring. Alot of times a weight hole can help correct this too.

Remember...stay behind it long, turn a little bit at the heel of your foot, and dont turn with the thumb in the ball.

[madaba]

You might want to have the drill looked at then. If you look under the drilling section at Hammer's site, there are what they call "Flare Safe" zones for high and low track players, if you have the pin in a Flare Safe zone for your track, your ball will not roll over the fingers flaring. Alot of times a weight hole can help correct this too.

Remember...stay behind it long, turn a little bit at the heel of your foot, and dont turn with the thumb in the ball.

Dang, your good. My bws had too much side weight and bv's pin is not in my safe zone.

[Rowdy]

I think Rowdy actually meant a pole down the lanes in between lanes. A gap where the ball return channel usually is.... then a pole

No. Rowdy meant a HUGE freakin' pole right at the foul line. As in you could smack it with your hand on the follow through. And many bowlers did.

[Rowdy]

I was just going to mention that as well. If you put more forward roll on the ball you'll throw more of a end over end ball ala WRW which will cause that.

Okay,I've got a ton of forward roll and a low ball track. Explain that.

[blistershurt]

I think your track has to do with axis tilt, which means, in theory you could have a low track but lots of foreward roll, it all depends on how soon your thumb clears the ball, when my thumb clears the ball correctly, I have a high track with lots of revs, but when I mess up, I have a medium to low track with about half the revs I do when I'm on my game.

[madaba]

I've never been able to produce a low/medium track. I am going to be focusing on my release this summer and try to get some more revs on the ball so I have more options for playing different lane conditions

[JaraTo]

Okay,I've got a ton of forward roll and a low ball track. Explain that.

That was posted about about a month ago, would you believe I've learned the error of my ways since then :( Oh Master Jedi?