Bye Bye hammer

[rehcuob]

Just read the crap you losers posted, I wouldnt buy another hammer if last ball in the world. This forum is occupied by a bunch of cry babys. 20 yrs ago bowling was real now you have fake scores on all these blocked houses. by the way averaged 200+ last night with the good fitting ball not the hammer. So live in your fantasy world and bye

[Street Racer]

Just read the crap you losers posted, I wouldnt buy another hammer if last ball in the world. This forum is occupied by a bunch of cry babys. 20 yrs ago bowling was real now you have fake scores on all these blocked houses. by the way averaged 200+ last night with the good fitting ball not the hammer. So live in your fantasy world and bye

and? i shot 298 this year with a non hammer all, shot 2 700's, multiple 800 and a couple of 900 over 4 with a non hammer ball. lately i have not picked up a hammer ball

but you dont see me putting down a brand, just because i averaged over 200 with a non hammer ball...

btw...... not everybody deserves to be called a loser, not EVERYBODY has been involved with that thread....

i will say it again...

welcome to 21st century of bowling

great for the young juniors of the sport..

[uberamd]

I think that around 2-3 people made bad comments and now everyone is leaving.

People that leave over this need to quit with the eDrama. WELCOME TO THE INTERNET. It has ALWAYS been this way, heck head over to ballreviews.com, SAME WAY. So quit crying over spilled milk, and stop getting bent out of shape over words posted on a forum. If it really effects you THAT much, you are taking things WAY to seriously.

And quit saying s**t about "juniors and the sport", 99.99999% of bowlers do NOT read these forums and nothing said here effects them. Bowling is great for youth, I see kids-teens everywhere bowling and having a great time, so stop acting like the downfall of bowling is on the way and get outside more if you really think these forums are causing a decline in the entire world.

Arg, pathetic people, very pathetic.

[JaraTo]

Am I late on the coining of the word "eDrama"? I chuckled at that one.

[Street Racer]

And quit saying s**t about "juniors and the sport", 99.99999% of bowlers do NOT read these forums and nothing said here effects them. Bowling is great for youth, I see kids-teens everywhere bowling and having a great time, so stop acting like the downfall of bowling is on the way and get outside more if you really think these forums are causing a decline in the entire world.

Arg, pathetic people, very pathetic.


its not just happeneing here... its happening at bowling tournaments.. msn... everywhere... and i grew up listening to this s***... in australia we have lost some great juniors in this sport because of this crap...

it is a downfall, because in the future, you will have the junior what were listening to it, doing it when they are adults.. and it will get worse and worse, so dont tell me its pathetic...

i know bowling is great for junior and youth.. have a look. i just came out of juniors, i have been around this crap and it does effect them... its not doing the juniors any good...

[uberamd]

its not just happeneing here... its happening at bowling tournaments.. msn... everywhere... and i grew up listening to this s***... in australia we have lost some great juniors in this sport because of this crap...

it is a downfall, because in the future, you will have the junior what were listening to it, doing it when they are adults.. and it will get worse and worse, so dont tell me its pathetic...

i know bowling is great for junior and youth.. have a look. i just came out of youth, i have been around this crap and it does effect them... its not doing the juniors any good...

I am 19, and before I joined here I was unaware any drama like this existed in bowling, and I am willing to guess the 22 year olds on my team who do not browse here are unaware of any issues. What does that say?

[Street Racer]

I am 19, and before I joined here I was unaware any drama like this existed in bowling, and I am willing to guess the 22 year olds on my team who do not browse here are unaware of any issues. What does that say?

honestly, do you reckon. EVERYSINGLE junior and youth bowler hears about it...

bowling is very small in Australia compared to the USA, you will be amazed at how much everybody knows everybody here, yes it has stopped a little bit here, but it sounds like its just going to start up again...

i dont wanna start any shit here never did, if i was... i would of posted already that i am leaving.. and no i'm not.... being the 2nd most activemember of the forums.. i have seen some changes... wish it could go back to start of 2006, forums were best then...

damm shame...

forums are coming back like when quest was here..

[uberamd]

Well honestly I didn't notice an issue here until, today. I joined a month ago, and average something like 12 posts a day here. I have been insanely active, and can't imagine I would miss something, the site seemed fine. Heck, I singlehandedly am responsible for moving this site ranking up around 20,000-50,000 rankings on alexa (I have the toolbar installed that tracks browsing trends) because of how much I read. (if that means nothing to you, alexa is a website popularity tracking company and I submit my browsing statistics and what sites I visit to them so they can see trends of what sites people visit, when I joined the rank of this site was around 314,000 and now its 252,642).

Back to the topic, people I know who bowl are unaware of issues, because they don't browse bowling online. They go to league, have a blast, and thats it, they don't go online like us few and talk about it, etc. The world of bowling outside the internet is much larger than those who participate in the online talk of bowling. So no, 99% of people outside of the ones online are unaware of any issues, at least I have observed that.

If I walked up to someone and said "Isn't the current state of bowling sad" they would reply by saying "What the heck are you talking about tool?"

[Street Racer]

Well honestly I didn't notice an issue here until, today. I joined a month ago, and average something like 12 posts a day here. I have been insanely active, and can't imagine I would miss something, the site seemed fine. Heck, I singlehandedly am responsible for moving this site ranking up around 20,000-50,000 rankings on alexa (I have the toolbar installed that tracks browsing trends) because of how much I read. (if that means nothing to you, alexa is a website popularity tracking company and I submit my browsing statistics and what sites I visit to them so they can see trends of what sites people visit, when I joined the rank of this site was around 314,000 and now its 252,642).

Back to the topic, people I know who bowl are unaware of issues, because they don't browse bowling online. They go to league, have a blast, and thats it, they don't go online like us few and talk about it, etc. The world of bowling outside the internet is much larger than those who participate in the online talk of bowling. So no, 99% of people outside of the ones online are unaware of any issues, at least I have observed that.

If I walked up to someone and said "Isn't the current state of bowling sad" they would reply by saying "What the heck are you talking about tool?"

and as i said, do you honestly think. everysingle junior and youth bowler would hear about it....

lol... 6 billion people in the world(i think seen it on wikipedia! lol), world has more water then land i do believe.. its not like i can just walk to New York and just say some shit...

[JaraTo]

Before I say anything, just want to make sure you guys know I'm not choosing a side, only making an observation.

I think those same 99% are least likely to be the ones are striving to become serious bowlers. Very uninformed statement. I think the issue being argued is that all the younger bowlers are serious about pursuing this sport for a lifetime are who the statement is generalizing. Again, my observation of what was intended now what I may or may not believe.

[uberamd]

and as i said, do you honestly think. everysingle junior and youth bowler would hear about it....

lol... 6 billion people in the world(i think seen it on wikipedia! lol), world has more water then land i do believe.. its not like i can just walk to New York and just say some shit...

6 billion + in the world, how many are bowlers? Then, at random ask 100 of the bowling people, heck ask everyone at your league. If no more than 5 of the 100 people (5%) can answer the previous question in my thread, the issue is not that big or important in the grand scheme of things. Heck I would even say realistically its a majority rule, if over 50% of the people think bowling is facing major issues there is a problem, if not, no problem. What I am getting it as that I myself am 19, and I hear older (note I didnt say old :) ) people saying things about youth bowlers and all this, and honestly I don't think what they say holds any water. Just my opinion.

[idlehourlegend]

and as i said, do you honestly think. everysingle junior and youth bowler would hear about it....

lol... 6 billion people in the world(i think seen it on wikipedia! lol), world has more water then land i do believe.. its not like i can just walk to New York and just say some shit...

Well actually.......yes you could

http://www.water-sports.cn/image/water%20sports%20shoes.jpg

And look Rocky could come with you.:D :p

[uberamd]

Before I say anything, just want to make sure you guys know I'm not choosing a side, only making an observation.

I think those same 99% are least likely to be the ones are striving to become serious bowlers. Very uninformed statement. I think the issue being argued is that all the younger bowlers are serious about pursuing this sport for a lifetime are who the statement is generalizing. Again, my observation of what was intended now what I may or may not believe.

I guess I don't really even know what the issues are. Anyone care to list them?

[Street Racer]

Well actually.......yes you could

http://www.water-sports.cn/image/water%20sports%20shoes.jpg

And look Rocky could come with you.:D :p

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha ownage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

never doubt the young ones lol

[hbhammerhead]

guys lets just forget everything that's happened here the last couple of days. all of the bs and all of the bashing. lets get this site back to what it's suppose to be for. this was all started by one person being negative towards hammer. i know that there are a lot of people that are not into using hammer for their reasons and i can respect that. what's done is done. that person is leaving and now we can move on and focus on what's important. and for everyone else that is anti hammer please just keep it to yourself. no one should be bashing bowling companies here. thanks.

[Street Racer]

I guess I don't really even know what the issues are. Anyone care to list them?

anguements at bowling tournament, kicking ball returns, swearing, putting down bowlers, heck even fighting in the car park, seen that before... alot of juniors around that day to

yes doesnt happen everysingle min, hour, day.... but what i am getting at, it does happen... but not to everybody

as i said... not everybody may not hear about it, but if we lose those 3-5 juniors everysingle 6 months.... adding it up over years..... bowling would slowly become nothing..

[idlehourlegend]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha ownage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

never doubt the young ones lol

lol yup, just watch out for those sharks when you get around Africa, they may mistake you for a tasty blue and yellow seal.:D

[Street Racer]

lol yup, just watch out for those sharks when you get around Africa, they may mistake you for a tasty blue and yellow seal.:D

calling me fat are you lol

[idlehourlegend]

calling me fat are you lol

lol nope just kinda seal like:D :D

[Street Racer]

lol nope just kinda seal like:D :D

geez thanks lol

[mongoliantreesloth]

Did I miss something?

[TenPinSniper]

Dude is from Australia.

Crocodile Dundee "Paul Hogan"- "That not a knife, this is a knife."

Crocodile Hunter "Steve Irwin"- "Think we have a Poacher War."

Idle those Aussie are crazy fearless.:D

Brett would probably have some new Shark Boots when he got here... and if bowling would have really Bite, when he attached the Shark Teeth to it.

[TenPinSniper]

i dont wanna start any shit here never did, if i was... i would of posted already that i am leaving.. and no i'm not.... being the 2nd most activemember of the forums.. i have seen some changes... wish it could go back to start of 2006, forums were best then...

damm shame...

forums are coming back like when quest was here..

Think your hit right there Brett.

Back when Rowdy was new, there was transition going on... Lots of new members, the bashing really started to happen... instead of sharing of knowledge. It has gotten better, until recently. Now we have a few making general statements. But instead of trying to inform, correct or even debating the subject. They have just started making statements that where all stupid or something. Basically how they're better than the rest of us.

If remember 2006 was a transitional year too. Pincrusher, Marquis Custom Built Homes, etc...

Sure most of us have had difference with someone here from time to time... you just have to move on. Like Josh said awhile back its just the internet. If you cn't grasp that turn off the computer and step away for a couple days or weeks.

[Street Racer]

Think your hit right there Brett.

Back when Rowdy was new, there was transition going on... Lots of new members, the bashing really started to happen... instead of sharing of knowledge. It has gotten better, until recently. Now we have a few making general statements. But instead of trying to inform, correct or even debating the subject. They have just started making statements that where all stupid or something. Basically how they're better than the rest of us.

If remember 2006 was a transitional year too. Pincrusher, Marquis Custom Built Homes, etc...

Sure most of us have had difference with someone here from time to time... you just have to move on. Like Josh said awhile back its just the internet. If you cn't grasp that turn off the computer and step away for a couple days or weeks.


well said..... arrrhhh Pincrusher... i remember him(making me sound old lol)

[JaraTo]

Your PM's are disabled so I'll lay it out here. The "Stampy The Elephant" comment was not meant to be an attack and quite frankly I was surprised by your response. Sorry if I offended.... but in all honestly I wasn't lying. Ever time I see your name I get that episode of The Simpsons stuck in my head and it brings a smile to my face. :D Take care bud.

[Stampy79]

U, you werent aware of this DRAMA because most of this stuff goes on behind closed doors of a Pro SHop or the bar after the night is over or even in the home pro shop where a guy and his teammates gather to figure out what to do to better their scores. You havent been exposed to it long enough to know its there. But it is. Its always been this way and always will. It will not bring down Jr bowling near as fast as the new equiptment that comes out on a daily basis. I think that was part of what fired me up in the other thread is the fact that I dont have the advantages that the youngsters do nowdays when they start ! There wasnt even an internet when guys like Bubba,Blue,Rowdy and some other started. I know some of these kids work hard and try, but it wasnt the same then, and I wish it would go back to the way it was even if we had to use the new balls. Guys, there was no bumper on the outside before. If you threw from 15 to 6, that ball was going in the ditch ! Plain and simple. Well enough about the old days.In here, I just wish the guys asking for help would actually read and take it all in instead of saying how one guy at the lane said ... and we must be wrong. We are not the best bowlers in the world, but we do have many,many years of at least seeing what goes on out there. Not to mention many years of trial and error

[JaraTo]

I actually started to pick up on the history of bowling technology and transition that caused many pros to retire in that Bowling Execution book I started reading. Definitely does sound like things were much more dependent on actual talent back then especially in descriptions of how it was almost necessary to hit up on those older balls to get the desired reaction. It is sad though how some couldn't or were unable to transition their games once technology started to boom. Made me respect a player like Pete Weber even more than I did before because he was one of the few that survived.

[uberamd]

U, you werent aware of this DRAMA because most of this stuff goes on behind closed doors of a Pro SHop or the bar after the night is over or even in the home pro shop where a guy and his teammates gather to figure out what to do to better their scores. You havent been exposed to it long enough to know its there. But it is. Its always been this way and always will. It will not bring down Jr bowling near as fast as the new equiptment that comes out on a daily basis. I think that was part of what fired me up in the other thread is the fact that I dont have the advantages that the youngsters do nowdays when they start ! There wasnt even an internet when guys like Bubba,Blue,Rowdy and some other started. I know some of these kids work hard and try, but it wasnt the same then, and I wish it would go back to the way it was even if we had to use the new balls. Guys, there was no bumper on the outside before. If you threw from 15 to 6, that ball was going in the ditch ! Plain and simple. Well enough about the old days.In here, I just wish the guys asking for help would actually read and take it all in instead of saying how one guy at the lane said ... and we must be wrong. We are not the best bowlers in the world, but we do have many,many years of at least seeing what goes on out there. Not to mention many years of trial and error

One thing I have noticed here is that people sometimes say "go learn it yourself", "why not practice and figure it out", "why are you asking that here", etc. I think at times, people here assume the person asking questions didn't research anything themselves and they are just waiting on others to tell them what to do. Well, that is not the case. I ask tons of questions here, and I have a ton more I could ask but simply don't. I have the book Bowling Execution, I have read every word on almost every website, tried to memorize and understand the pages of terminology, practice on weekends throwing at times 10-13 games straight, etc. So its not like people who ask a lot of the questions that seem to get people annoyed aren't trying, the fact is that when people are on these forums, they are only here because they cannot bowl, for example between classes at school, at night when we have homework, etc. So don't get frustrated with us asking questions and all that, as the people here are essentially our coaches.

Second comes to technology. You need to evolve to succeed. Sure enough bowling technology has changed, but so has ALL technology. Heck adults of all ages are trying to learn computers as in the business world you need computer knowledge to be successful now. My college requires laptops for every student, etc. Golf Drivers have been changing to hit the ball further and further all the time. My point is that the world changes you cant be bitter about that. If everyone got ticked when there was change, we would still be riding around in covered wagons pulled by oxen.

And technology doesn't make the game. I work my butt off at bowling and just recently I have been able to average 180+ series. I have expensive equipment, a wrist support, the super ball cleaners, and all that fun stuff but I am not throwing 300 games, 800 series, heck not even a 600 series yet. Technology will never eliminate human error. So if you are bitter about technology change, look at nearly every other sport (NASCAR, golf, football), the technology that goes into many aspects of those games has changed, thats a part of life.

[can-ham]

Think your hit right there Brett.

Back when Rowdy was new, there was transition going on... Lots of new members, the bashing really started to happen... instead of sharing of knowledge. It has gotten better, until recently. Now we have a few making general statements. But instead of trying to inform, correct or even debating the subject. They have just started making statements that where all stupid or something. Basically how they're better than the rest of us.

If remember 2006 was a transitional year too. Pincrusher, Marquis Custom Built Homes, etc...

Sure most of us have had difference with someone here from time to time... you just have to move on. Like Josh said awhile back its just the internet. If you cn't grasp that turn off the computer and step away for a couple days or weeks.

Yeah Brett is bang on, the forum got in a really good groove that year. I owe this forum allot, Tempin's advice helped me get a 300. I've read an article posted by Bubba then that night applied the information to help other bowlers in league. You can usually get insight on new balls hammer or others. And the forum is usually good for a laugh (bring back Brad M). As for the drama well to be honest it's kind of funny and it improves the ratings. People check more often when shizzle hits the fan. People get heated and passionate and after it's all over members that stick around seem to be closer.

http://www.joshuajmorgan.com/blog/media/bowling-01-14-05-james-shoe.jpg

As far as the new technology goes, everyone has the same opportunity and no matter how good they make the strike balls, they don't automatically pick up your spares. And the youth is the future of all sports. So if your a youth take a good look, because in 40 years it will be you bitching about the youth of tomorrow... :D

[JaraTo]

(Mediating) Uber, I believe the point that was trying to be expressed was the new generation's dependency on technology. You're obviously not one of those guys though. Not enough focus on fundamentals. I've seen it, and I know you've see it at lanes at some point, and there have been posts here that support that theory. When something goes wrong, it's the equipment's fault. It's sickening actually. I appreciate the fact that you are genuinely interested in learning the nuances of the game. Hope I correctly interpreted the issue.

[Stampy79]

Yes you got it right but, Now as I try to stay cool, This is what I am talking about. most of you are trying to prove me wrong and you cant. You didnt bowl then. You are missing the point again. What I am saying is anyone can hit the pocket on a house shot. It didnt used to be that way. There are guys averaging 200 to 220 who would prob only average 175 to 190 on the old shot. You also have to remember that because of the USBC's blind attitude, all house shots are not the same. Some are tough and others arent. There are shots that if you get it right, it will walk back to the pocket where it runs into a flood and cant go high ! Its just that simple guys. Proprietors just love the fact that that they can oil the lanes anyway they want as long as there is the required units. Its just that simple. This is the only way they can see to save the sport we know as bowling. Let everyone and anyone score all the time. I am lucky enough to bowl in a house where they dont think this way. Its a tough HS and we all do very well when we bowl tourneys elsewhere on a HS or any other pattern. Here is a great experiment to try if you can get the lane guy to do it one time. After they are oiled, have him walk down the gutters with an oiled rag or a spray bottle and oil the boards from the gutter to the 10 board with fresh oil. Then just stand up there and try to throw your own shot you throw in league. Bet your gonna be surprised !Let me know how that turns out will ya plz ! And by the way, you think you leave corners now ! LOL Ask the old guys on that one

[JaraTo]

Yea it's all about the house making money. Higher scores = more customers. Last night I asked if they held any sport shot leagues and they looked at me funny.

::EDIT:: But on the flipside it has increased the interest in the sport and it's a great way for beginners to not get so discouraged when they are trying to learn the sport.

[Stampy79]

Yep, seen that before too. I was in one 3 years ago here and after the first 16 weeks (1/2 Season) we had people dropping like flies. After that, they decided to go to a Modified HS. Soak the middle so the ball doesnt run high as I stated before and just enough on the outside so you actually have to pay attention. Its all about the money for the owners and I understand that. Its up to the USBC to make it nationwide so it has to be accepted by all. I am not kidding guys, if you threw the same lines back then as we do now, the gutter ball rate would be almost as high as the spare rate now ! And thats scarey. Someone earlier in this thread said it wasnt all about hitting the pocket now but also making spares. Thats true, but I gotta telll ya, it was even harder back then. Thats why they used to say if you just get your spares ....

[uberamd]

Hm well I love the game as it is and going back to solid oil would just discourage players. That's life.

[nilludar]

Yes you got it right but, Now as I try to stay cool, This is what I am talking about. most of you are trying to prove me wrong and you cant. You didnt bowl then. You are missing the point again. What I am saying is anyone can hit the pocket on a house shot. It didnt used to be that way. There are guys averaging 200 to 220 who would prob only average 175 to 190 on the old shot. You also have to remember that because of the USBC's blind attitude, all house shots are not the same. Some are tough and others arent. There are shots that if you get it right, it will walk back to the pocket where it runs into a flood and cant go high ! Its just that simple guys. Proprietors just love the fact that that they can oil the lanes anyway they want as long as there is the required units. Its just that simple. This is the only way they can see to save the sport we know as bowling. Let everyone and anyone score all the time. I am lucky enough to bowl in a house where they dont think this way. Its a tough HS and we all do very well when we bowl tourneys elsewhere on a HS or any other pattern. Here is a great experiment to try if you can get the lane guy to do it one time. After they are oiled, have him walk down the gutters with an oiled rag or a spray bottle and oil the boards from the gutter to the 10 board with fresh oil. Then just stand up there and try to throw your own shot you throw in league. Bet your gonna be surprised !Let me know how that turns out will ya plz ! And by the way, you think you leave corners now ! LOL Ask the old guys on that one


I learned from the old school of bowling - playing on wood, throwing plastic or rubber (LT-48 was the bomb!!! and the Yellow Dot was cutting edge) and a 200 average was truly special. Then, you needed to be REAL good to even think about throwing a 250+ game because the technology was just not there. I averaged 185 then and felt special. I worked in a pro shop and had the new cutting edge ball all the time. The shot was difficult and the equipment was basic.

However, just like everything else, the technology has progressed to the point where the scores "back then" or easy to achieve. Technology has progressed in every sport making the records of the past look lame or insignificant. The Proprietors are losing money fast and the only way they know how to bring the bowler into the house is to make it easy for them. So we have cutting edge balls and simple shots on normal league nights. And personally, I see no problem with that. However, 75% of the bowlers don't realize this and think if you average 200 in a league, you should be pro. I have had several people ask why I don't turn pro and be in TV... LOL. I just laugh and explain it's totally different.

Think of it this way, what would Peyton Manning or Tom Brady be like in the 1970's where the defenders could maul the recievers, you had very little padding, late hits were the norm, and most of the fields were trash. The would be thrilled to have 20TD passes. The game has evolved and so has bowling. The difference is we can't all go out in full pads and play football pretending to be Manning. But we can grab a bowling ball and hit a house pretending to be Rhino! LOL

The game is what it is. If you don't like the ease of it, find a sport shot league and grab a plastic ball and give it a whirl. Otherwise, take the advantages you are offered and enjoy it. I do agree the game is too easy and USBC is not doing the things needed to reel it in a bit to make it competitive. But with the downturn in membership, why detour people from playing a game that can be truly fun.

BTW, now I average 220 on a consistant basis and have had numerous 300's. I still feel accomplished in these goals and still enjoy the game tremendously. But I also realize the game has become a lot easier over the years. But I also realize it takes knowledge and experience to know when to move, when to change balls, how to pick up spares, and when to change my game. Given the lanes 25 - 30 years ago, I bet I could average 195 - 200 once I got use to the conditions. ;)

Sorry for the long post.

[grayfin68]

I still don't know why people got so bent out of shape about these threads. Hell, the advertisement on the Hammer site basically advertises the boards as a trash-talking site.

So, I non-Hammer guy comes on here and talks trash about Hammer products and gets his ass handed to him. What's the big deal? It's not like he came here asking for advice.

Then it turns into locked threads? Some people are a tad sensitive IMHO.

[idlehourlegend]

I agree with this and very well said. I may have not grown up in that time period but I deeply respect the people that have and understand how much "harder" the shot was than it is in the blocked THS's now. But I too bowled on that old shot, when I was younger my dad took my to a house he grew up bowling at and it had the same old shot put down with the spray gun from end to end and he made me use one of the old Manhattan Rubbers on the rack and he gave me house shoes and said here go out and make it hook (this was after winning 8 youth tourneys in a row) head got a little big :D . So I did and let me say it wasnt easy whatsoever but I did still roll 190s-200s I averaged 180 which for me back then was very good (I only averaged 170 something on a THs. But I do really wish they put that shot down at houses again even if its only 1 day a week or for a sport shot league and have the cocky guys thats dont know how to or have to move on their normal shot and see how they do.I learned from the old school of bowling - playing on wood, throwing plastic or rubber (LT-48 was the bomb!!! and the Yellow Dot was cutting edge) and a 200 average was truly special. Then, you needed to be REAL good to even think about throwing a 250+ game because the technology was just not there. I averaged 185 then and felt special. I worked in a pro shop and had the new cutting edge ball all the time. The shot was difficult and the equipment was basic.

However, just like everything else, the technology has progressed to the point where the scores "back then" or easy to achieve. Technology has progressed in every sport making the records of the past look lame or insignificant. The Proprietors are losing money fast and the only way they know how to bring the bowler into the house is to make it easy for them. So we have cutting edge balls and simple shots on normal league nights. And personally, I see no problem with that. However, 75% of the bowlers don't realize this and think if you average 200 in a league, you should be pro. I have had several people ask why I don't turn pro and be in TV... LOL. I just laugh and explain it's totally different.

Think of it this way, what would Peyton Manning or Tom Brady be like in the 1970's where the defenders could maul the recievers, you had very little padding, late hits were the norm, and most of the fields were trash. The would be thrilled to have 20TD passes. The game has evolved and so has bowling. The difference is we can't all go out in full pads and play football pretending to be Manning. But we can grab a bowling ball and hit a house pretending to be Rhino! LOL

The game is what it is. If you don't like the ease of it, find a sport shot league and grab a plastic ball and give it a whirl. Otherwise, take the advantages you are offered and enjoy it. I do agree the game is too easy and USBC is not doing the things needed to reel it in a bit to make it competitive. But with the downturn in membership, why detour people from playing a game that can be truly fun.

BTW, now I average 220 on a consistant basis and have had numerous 300's. I still feel accomplished in these goals and still enjoy the game tremendously. But I also realize the game has become a lot easier over the years. But I also realize it takes knowledge and experience to know when to move, when to change balls, how to pick up spares, and when to change my game. Given the lanes 25 - 30 years ago, I bet I could average 195 - 200 once I got use to the conditions. ;)

Sorry for the long post.

[JaraTo]

WOW! The use of "IMHO" just made me laugh so hard. I guess the accepted definition is In My HUMBLE Opinion, not HONEST contrary to popular belief. Humble and that post did not go together, lol.

[uberamd]

... But with the downturn in membership, why detour people from playing a game that can be truly fun....

Thats exactly it. In league, we are all playing the same shot, no matter what the people are accustomed to playing on. The difficulty level is the same for everyone, and not everyone is getting 300's, heck I only saw 1 300 this year, none last year.

The fact is that the game is supposed to be FUN. Leagues are a blast, because I am playing against people and trying to beat them. Its not like I am playing on a burnt up easy house shot and the opponent is playing on tough oil, we are ALL playing on the SAME conditions. NOBODY has an advantage. Some may say Person X has a better ball than Person Y. That isn't an advantage though, because the same goes for golf, I hit used Taylor Made irons that are a few years old, big deal, its relatively the same.

Who cares if houses have easy shots during open bowling? In the end it comes down to competition. And if its an easy shot during league, everyone should be throwing 250 averages right.... NO! Thats not how it works, we have some scratch bowlers in league, and we have some people with 70+ handicaps but they ALL compete together on the same playing field. Who cares if people can swing the ball more now? EVERYONE has the opportunity to do that, old and young alike.

Also, I appreciate old records. I know that records set back in the day were harder to obtain, I am not blind to that (and I am only 19 mind you). Its common sense technology of today is better than that of the past, and people shouldn't, and rarely do compare themselves against legends. It is a different game now, and not a fair comparison.

[Thepainscoming]

Hey u, just one question and not mean at all, y do u think burned up shots are easier than fresh oil. For me its the opposite. And theres a house by me that YOUTH bowlers are averaging 223, and i know u might say they're good, but i beat them in a youth tourney that was on a sport shot.

[JoshWithrow]

y do u think burned up shots are easier than fresh oil. For me its the opposite.

Same. It might have to do with my comfy speed, my revs, etc... but I prefer as much oil as you can give me. I've always been able to adjust to heavy shots.... but my weak spot is dry. That's why the tournies I've been rolling in I try to make first squad. Carrydown? No problem. Ball swimming in oil? No problem. A combination of both? Still not a problem, as just for that I have my syntactive sledge sitting @ 800 grit and that suckers drilled early and hard ;)

Anyway... I agree with you. Most people will bowl better on a burnt shot... not me. The fresher the better. No sloppy seconds, please.

[uberamd]

Hey u, just one question and not mean at all, y do u think burned up shots are easier than fresh oil. For me its the opposite. And theres a house by me that YOUTH bowlers are averaging 223, and i know u might say they're good, but i beat them in a youth tourney that was on a sport shot.

Same. It might have to do with my comfy speed, my revs, etc... but I prefer as much oil as you can give me. I've always been able to adjust to heavy shots.... but my weak spot is dry. That's why the tournies I've been rolling in I try to make first squad. Carrydown? No problem. Ball swimming in oil? No problem. A combination of both? Still not a problem, as just for that I have my syntactive sledge sitting @ 800 grit and that suckers drilled early and hard ;)

Anyway... I agree with you. Most people will bowl better on a burnt shot... not me. The fresher the better. No sloppy seconds, please.
Its just the observation I have made. You have the people that crank the heck out of the ball on the dry shots and get the ball to hook like a banshee because thats ALL they play on. Throw those people in a league shot, and they are screwed because there is actually oil. Not everyone is better on dry, but from what I noticed people I watch are usually better.

[JaraTo]

Ditto, I burn up everything if I'm not in league. The pearl sees the most action outside of league.

[xGatez]

Bowling better on dry?

yeah not me. I love me some oil only because i have alot of revs with not much speed.

[Thepainscoming]

Just letting u know U. im like lower rev than dave traber.

[uberamd]

Just letting u know U. im like lower rev than dave traber.

I am also a very low rev rate, and low speed. I do fine in league once I figure out the line.

[Dave34]

I like dry lanes, probably because I'm med-rev and like throwing the ball fast.

I'd rather bowl on fresh oil, but dry lanes are fun.

[Knight9299]

Yep, seen that before too. I was in one 3 years ago here and after the first 16 weeks (1/2 Season) we had people dropping like flies. After that, they decided to go to a Modified HS. Soak the middle so the ball doesnt run high as I stated before and just enough on the outside so you actually have to pay attention. Its all about the money for the owners and I understand that. Its up to the USBC to make it nationwide so it has to be accepted by all. I am not kidding guys, if you threw the same lines back then as we do now, the gutter ball rate would be almost as high as the spare rate now ! And thats scarey. Someone earlier in this thread said it wasnt all about hitting the pocket now but also making spares. Thats true, but I gotta telll ya, it was even harder back then. Thats why they used to say if you just get your spares ....

I never bowled in the 'old days' ;) but I'm constantly on the owner of the house I bowl in to throw down a more taxing shot. He claims he'd have a riot on his hands. Technology has advanced way past the average house shot conditions. That needs to change. I'm not saying every night needs to a murderous shot but a certain amount of weeks should be.

[Knight9299]

Just read the crap you losers posted, I wouldnt buy another hammer if last ball in the world. This forum is occupied by a bunch of cry babys. 20 yrs ago bowling was real now you have fake scores on all these blocked houses. by the way averaged 200+ last night with the good fitting ball not the hammer. So live in your fantasy world and bye

I'm not a heavy poster. I come on to find out how to get the most out of my Hammers. He caused a ruckus with an early post. After a couple of posters called him on it and went over board- they are in the wrong? He tried to do it again with this post. His posts serve only to incite.
This guy needs to lose his posting privileges- period.

[Rowdy]

Just read the crap you losers posted, I wouldnt buy another hammer if last ball in the world. This forum is occupied by a bunch of cry babys. 20 yrs ago bowling was real now you have fake scores on all these blocked houses. by the way averaged 200+ last night with the good fitting ball not the hammer. So live in your fantasy world and bye

So...go already. Don't buy another Hammer,more for the rest of us. Don't let the knob hit you in the ass on the way out,either. Buh-Bye to you,too.

[Stampy79]

hehe, thx Rowdy !