How much handicap is too much?

[Bama Vol]

Up until this year, our Thursday night men's handicap league (5 man teams)was pretty level. Last night we bowled a team with a team handicap of 373. The HCs ranged from 57 for the anchor to 93. Our team handicap is 150. We beat them overall scratch by over 300 pins, but with the HC, we lost all. This is a USBC sanctioned league although our secretary, who will be voted out at the end of the season, says he's there for fun and wished we weren't sanctioned. (That's a whole new rant. I bet he won't return his 600 pin at the end of the year.)
I'm wondering, should teams with such ridicously high handicaps be made to re-calculate their averages every quarter, half of the season or should we just suck it up and phone in our scores? To top it off, the team is not what most of us classify as overly friendly, infact they are almost snobbish to anyone outside the team.

[grayfin68]

Up until this year, our Thursday night men's handicap league (5 man teams)was pretty level. Last night we bowled a team with a team handicap of 373. The HCs ranged from 57 for the anchor to 93. Our team handicap is 150. We beat them overall scratch by over 300 pins, but with the HC, we lost all. This is a USBC sanctioned league although our secretary, who will be voted out at the end of the season, says he's there for fun and wished we weren't sanctioned. (That's a whole new rant. I bet he won't return his 600 pin at the end of the year.)
I'm wondering, should teams with such ridicously high handicaps be made to re-calculate their averages every quarter, half of the season or should we just suck it up and phone in our scores? To top it off, the team is not what most of us classify as overly friendly, infact they are almost snobbish to anyone outside the team.

I'll hold judgment until I know if they are sandbaggers or just high handicappers. If they're sandbaggers and you can prove it, then I'd try to take action or at least bring it up to the league officers. If they're just high handicappers who bowled better (relative to their avgs), then I'd say who cares, that's handicapped bowling.

If you don't like giving up so many pins, then maybe you should find a more competitive league. Usually, a bowling center will have leagues that are on varying levels of skill.

[thegoldenchild]

My team has a 400+ handicap (can't remember the exact amount.) I overhear bitching about us all the time. This is our first season in leagues and everyone averages about 115-125 except me, my avg. is 180. The thing is, if we add our team avg with our team handicap it's always gonna be lower than the other team's avg+handicap. So if the other team bowls their average and we bowl ours, we will lose everytime. It is nice though when one of teammates bowls a 150+ game. We are in 12th out of 14 teams but we have a good time.

[can-ham]

It's been years since I've bowled in a handi-cap league. Does the handi-cap from the beginning of the year hold all year or does the handi-cap float with your average.

If the handi-cap adjusts with our average then that is fair for everyone but if they calculate it once and let it ride that isn't fair as people especially those with low score will generally improve through the season. But I don't want to be a hypocrite, in my first league when I started bowling they had a static handi-cap, and once I got my first ball (hammer blade reactive pearl) my average would go from 150 to 180 in three months making it hard to beat my handi-cap and we did win the league that year.

http://www.nwk.usace.army.mil/Flood2007/SandbagTechniques.jpg

I don't support or condone sandbagging, I was a new bowler with a great ball. And handi-cap leagues are great ways to get new bowlers involved in the sport. That should be a mission for most teams, find a new bowler who wants to learn and bring them onto your handi-cap team. Coach them and get them some equipment drilled, you will benefit if your are in one of these leagues.

[boilermakerloc7]

In the sanctioned league I am in, most of the teams have handicaps between 20 - 100. My team however depending on whos bowling is usually around 140. We were lucky enough to lead the league for the first half of the season but since are once again in the basement. We are a group who goes out on Friday to have fun. We are not the best but are know around the league to be the most fun. We sit there joke around, have a few "pops":D , and just try to have fun. Last week we got luck to win 5 of 7 from the first place team. It helped they bowled lousy, and we had a great week.:o Winning is great and I would love to win every week and be a 200 ave. bowler instead of a 144 ave. but I and the team goes to have fun. That IMHO should be the goal, to have fun.
YES Can the handicap should float with your average weekly.

[grayfin68]

We have a team of young guys in one of our leagues that used to be a men's league that was very competitive. However, since we're in a small town, the leagues don't always get filled up, so they'll typically not be that picky when it comes down to having enough people for a league.

So, these young guys (except for one who is already a good bowler) are all learning how to throw hooks. They all bought new balls at the beginning of the season and are all getting much better. So, since they are improving so much, they are winning more and more as the season goes along and they are in first place.

It's hard to complain though because it's not like they were good bowlers who decided to sandbag and tank early in the season, they're just getting better. Not much you can do about that.

I do remember back when I was younger, our league had a team of notorious sandbaggers who always won the league. However, the third season, my team beat them and it was very gratifying to beat those sandbagging f'ers.

[BubbaRay]

In my area of the country scratch leagues are hard to find. That is why most high avg. bowlers are forced to bowl handicapped leagues. In the leagues I bowl in besides the better leagues the handicap adjusts from week to week depending on the team avg. In my experience for example , idle's ad my team is averaging in the 1100 range. There are nights we bowl against a team who avg's 875 or 900 and give up as many as 275 pins hncp sometimes. On these nights those teams we bowl against bowl their best because they know they have to concentrate to beat us. And guess what they do. One night our team shot 3337 scratch and lost by over 200 pins. But I look at it as it's all part of the game. \

And always remember thisAny one can beat someone else on any givin night in this sport. There are no Garuntees in bowling. No defense it's all offense.

[2KDriver]

My Sat Nite League has an adjusted handicap system i.e. hdcp adjusts up and down with avg. I don't see how a fixed hdcp from the start of the season could be fair?!?:( This would be worse than sandbagging... blow the first week and carry a high hdcp all season? Even the worst teams appear to be trying to improve... yeah some players throw it and walk away, but not many! BTW we use 90% of 200 when calculating hdcp. There is also an individual award($25) for most improved bowler. I look forward to the day I can compete with my Brother... he carries a 198 avg with 0 hdcp!:)

[Rowdy]

Your team and individual handicaps change every week. In Bama's case I'd go back and track the other teams scores. If these guys have bowled before and aren't raw rookies,I'd be looking for a low start and then rolling a score just high enough to get the win but not high enough to drop their handicap by too many pins. A 373 team against your 150 team and you lost? You guys didn't roll up to snuff that night. You got beat,plain and simple. When you're giving pins you have to score early and keep the hammer down. Our scoring screens have a running total of the pinfall with the handicaps added in. It shows how + and - pins to the other team. It's a real motivator to start off being -223 pins in Bama's case before the first ball was thrown. You know that every guy on your team has to roll at LEAST his average,plus cover the pinfall of a guy on the other team that may get hot that night. EVERY ball counts when you're giving up pins like that. And that is hard to get through to some guys. This is where the team captain earns his stripes. It's his job to point it out and get the troops fired up to roll.

[PackRat]

A year or so back our Friday league went to a 100% the difference from 220 HC. This was done to make everybody equal. For the first time in years, even low avg bowlers (read high HC teams) could compete on a level plalying field. All things being equal though the best teams normally rise to the top. But it does make you stay on your game. Enough people complained at the end of the year, that it was dropped.

HC's are necessary to get and keep people bowling. Noone wants to lose every game waiting to get better.

At the beginning of the season in our leagues, you have to use the highest book average from last year to establish your first nite's HC.

[Rowdy]

100% of 220?!?! No wonder they bitched. 80% of 220 would have been the way to go on that one. I've always thought that 100% of 200 was more than fair to everyone. The bowlers who weren't so good got enough pins to be competitive and the guys who could really roll got next to nothing and had to be on their games to win. I've been in a few leagues where the team and individual handicap was capped at a certain amount of pins,to keep the sandbaggers at bay.

[grayfin68]

100% of 220?!?! No wonder they bitched. 80% of 220 would have been the way to go on that one. I've always thought that 100% of 200 was more than fair to everyone. The bowlers who weren't so good got enough pins to be competitive and the guys who could really roll got next to nothing and had to be on their games to win. I've been in a few leagues where the team and individual handicap was capped at a certain amount of pins,to keep the sandbaggers at bay.

Can you please explain how the % of handicap thing works? I used to know but forgot.

BTW, my opinion is that if your average is 200 or better, you don't need a handicap.

[madaba]

My team has a total handicap of 4 and we bowl alot of teams in our league with 150 to 250 handicaps. We still usually place in the top of the leage at the end of the quater

[JaraTo]

Can you please explain how the % of handicap thing works? I used to know but forgot.

BTW, my opinion is that if your average is 200 or better, you don't need a handicap.

What par is , 220 or 200, minus your average. Take the percentage of that result and that's your handicap. As you lower the precentage the advantage shift towards the higher average players.

[Alucious]

Heres a handicap story that has me on the brink of leaving my Thurs Night Mixed league. Handicap is 85% of 200. Theres only 6 teams, and I lead the league with a 199 for about 4 or 5 months, not being able to grab that 200 in this particular league. Handicap, as the bylaws stated, was 80% of the difference of your teams average, and 800. My team normally averaged between 725-775. One day I had my buddy, who's averaging 199 also there, come sub for my father, who averaged 130. This put our average at 807 for team. You'd think we just don't get a handicap, right? Wrong. Flip the page on the bylaws, and there is another rule. All pins OVER 800 team average, are added 100% to the opposing teams handicap. We went from winning all three, to losing all three, from that negative handicap. 100% of 200, or 80% of 220 is the way to go. On Wednesday night, the mens league uses an 85% of 250 I think.

[Rowdy]

Can you please explain how the % of handicap thing works? I used to know but forgot.

BTW, my opinion is that if your average is 200 or better, you don't need a handicap.

For a handicap league to work,everyone should get a handicap. Even a 200 roller. Your supposed to take your highest average bowler and set the handicap 5 pins over his average. Most leagues don't bother though.

If your league is basing their handicap on 100% of any number,the math is easy. Say it's 100% of 200 and you average 150. 200-150=50 pin handicap.

Now if it's 80% of 200,then 80% would be 160. Same bowler with a 150 average would be 160-150=10 pin handicap.

Now you see why I like 100% of 200 for a league. It favors the lower skill bowlers with a handicap that they need and it makes the high rollers bring their A game every week.

[Rowdy]

Heres a handicap story that has me on the brink of leaving my Thurs Night Mixed league. Handicap is 85% of 200. Theres only 6 teams, and I lead the league with a 199 for about 4 or 5 months, not being able to grab that 200 in this particular league. Handicap, as the bylaws stated, was 80% of the difference of your teams average, and 800. My team normally averaged between 725-775. One day I had my buddy, who's averaging 199 also there, come sub for my father, who averaged 130. This put our average at 807 for team. You'd think we just don't get a handicap, right? Wrong. Flip the page on the bylaws, and there is another rule. All pins OVER 800 team average, are added 100% to the opposing teams handicap. We went from winning all three, to losing all three, from that negative handicap. 100% of 200, or 80% of 220 is the way to go. On Wednesday night, the mens league uses an 85% of 250 I think.

85% of 250!!! Why not just have a scratch league instead?

[mongoliantreesloth]

100% of 200 is the fairest way imho. I played in an 80% of 200 league last year and it was deffo biased towards the better bowlers.

[grayfin68]

For a handicap league to work,everyone should get a handicap. Even a 200 roller. Your supposed to take your highest average bowler and set the handicap 5 pins over his average. Most leagues don't bother though.

If your league is basing their handicap on 100% of any number,the math is easy. Say it's 100% of 200 and you average 150. 200-150=50 pin handicap.

Now if it's 80% of 200,then 80% would be 160. Same bowler with a 150 average would be 160-150=10 pin handicap.

Now you see why I like 100% of 200 for a league. It favors the lower skill bowlers with a handicap that they need and it makes the high rollers bring their A game every week.

Thanks for the explanation. I think my leagues are 100% of 220.

[Alucious]

For a handicap league to work,everyone should get a handicap. Even a 200 roller. Your supposed to take your highest average bowler and set the handicap 5 pins over his average. Most leagues don't bother though.

If your league is basing their handicap on 100% of any number,the math is easy. Say it's 100% of 200 and you average 150. 200-150=50 pin handicap.

Now if it's 80% of 200,then 80% would be 160. Same bowler with a 150 average would be 160-150=10 pin handicap.

Now you see why I like 100% of 200 for a league. It favors the lower skill bowlers with a handicap that they need and it makes the high rollers bring their A game every week.

I think your math is wrong there. 80% of 200 for a 150 bowler would be as follow:

200-150 = 50

50 x 80% = 40 pin handicap.

85% of 250!!! Why not just have a scratch league instead?

Because there are bowlers in this particular league that average 180-200 and just couldn't compete with the 215-220 bowlers.

[Rowdy]

Thanks for the explanation. I think my leagues are 100% of 220.

I'm moving to Mary Land.