Illegal/legal house shot?

[hammer25]

Last night at league I thought that I would ask the guy that runs the oiling machine what the "THS" was. He commented that it did not matter because it was not a legal shot. Apparently we have been bowling on this shot all year and he said that everyone would complain if he added a legal shot. The last tapes that were ran revealed less than the required units from 10 to the gutter. The biggest thing with his comments were that "Everyone would complain". Mind you, 16 lanes, 5 man teams, and maybe 10-15 bowlers over 200 average. The majority of the bowlers are straight down 20, or where ever it ends up going. So my question is...Why would everyone complain about the shot? Wouldn't you think that they should complain about an illegal shot and just adjust to the shot that he puts out? Plus, with the guys that throw a straight ball threw the nose would still throw it straight through the nose. They would not even notice a difference. What should be, if any, are the reprecussions. I did tell him that I should not worry about having legal balls drilled if the shot I was bowling on was not leagal.
Any comments/suggestions?

[can-ham]

Sounds like the legal shot will be slightly hard than the walled up shot there now. People always complain when they bowl below their average. It's an ego thing. And if your ego is bruised your complaining, buying less food and drink and possible taking your business to an easier alley.

http://sparror.cubecinema.com/beingll/archive/dec04/i_love_myself_and_thats_all_that_matters.jpg

[BigEd]

With this type of situation here's what I have found.

An illegal ball isn't a huge deal UNLESS you shoot an honor score. If you have a good secretary or president, they will be able to tell you ball is illegal and the score won't count. Most of the leagues I bowl in are high dollar leagues, so they won't let an illegal ball fly.

What the mechanic is referring to is that the legal shot would be much tougher. Traditionally, most houses lay down an easier shot to keep the scores up and keep people happy. This is a very common problem. I would not worry about it too much unless you chose an illegal ball, then that can cause problems.

[hammer25]

If I made it sound like I was the one complaining that is not it. The point is that it is an "illegal shot" that he puts out. Why shouldn't he put a legal shot out? I do not play outside 10 myself, I can if the shot dictates it but the point is what would the USBC think?

[blistershurt]

Too bad none of you could come to my house...we play on a very different shot. Its a 37 foot gutter to gutter shot, and it seems like there's more on the outside than the inside. I ended up going from playing 20 to 10, to just throwing down the 5.

[hammer25]

I understand the easy shot thing to keep scores up and keeping them happy but currently the high average is 221 but the caliber of bowler that he is catering to are maybe 5 people out of 80. The next highest average is me at 217 which is 10 pins higher than I have ever averaged as well. And then the rest are a 200-210. Other than them few everyone else is 140-180 and the majority of them are not worried about how many pins they knock down they are worried about how many beers...

...and all of my balls are legal. I just said that to see what his respose would be.

[BigEd]

I'm not saying you're complaining. Legal shots are tough, that's why tournament scores tend to be lower. So I would just leave the shot as is. Now, if he's a buddy of yours, have him put the shot down at the end of the house on a slow night and bowl on it and see what the difference is. You should notice a significant difference.

[hammer25]

Believe me Blister, I would prefer a tougher shot like that...and the point would be it is legal!

They were going to come in and run tapes last night before league to see if everything was up to snuff and even told the guy that he would put down a legal shot for him to check and than he would lay down the "normal illegal shot" after he left.

The shot is fair for everyone but wouldn't it be fair to put down a legal fair shot? LOL!

[hammer25]

Good idea BigEd. I think that I will check out what he was referring to. Of course without 9 other guys throwing on it it will not be exact but I think I could see what it would be like.

[stretchmike]

:eek: imo the houses should always have a legal lane no matter what because otherwise if you manage any award winning plays be it a 300 or whatever it is it wont count and that hurts the whole bowling community. make it legal and the same for everyone is only way to be fair. the complainers can just take their problems to usbc and see where it gets them aka nowhere. i would much rather learn to play and get better on a legal lane then get a false good game. that owner saying that is not a true bowler then and he should be ashamed of himself. man i am mad now hearing about this.

[BigEd]

If you check the reward sheet, there is nothing about the lane condition on it. They don't report lane conditions to the usbc. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter about the lane when it comes to honor scores, only the ball. I do agree that both should matter, but no one checks it.

[hammer25]

Why check the lanes for legallity than. We have a handful of honor scores
I think 4-300's and 3 or 4 800's. Now what? They should give there rings back, there plaques, etc.

[hammer25]

When they run the tapes do they send them to the USBC to make sure that everything is kosher? Why pay dues to them if they do not intervene? I myself do not need a patch, or a ring to remind me of how good I just bowled.

[mbrown300]

the usbc isnt what it was as abc way back in the day an abc rep would have to show up after an honor score was shot and noone was allowed to bowl after league was done to verify it was a legal shot but they dont do it anymore and also noone knows your balls are legal unless you go to nationals i wonder how many honor scores are bowled with illegal balls a few years ago the house proshop had new guy in drilling and everyone that went to nationals had something illegal with there balls and who knows how many honor scores were shot and also its not like you have any honor awards anymore anyway we have one guy just last tuesday is his first league and first time sancationing he aves 160 and he shot a 299 game and gets nothing for it not 100 over not over avg for series just a bs plaque they need to make it were if your first timer you should get all those awards but usbc is so cheap i know most my leagues after 2009 unless something changes will not sancation anymore 85% of bowlers dont bowl tournaments and the rest of us can just buy a card at nationals whats the point of paying the dues when we get nothing in return if they want to control honor scores go back the old way and check the league shot after honor scores

[stretchmike]

i understand what you are saying for the most part however remember the usbc and the pba plus the prior leagues have denied some awards for illegal lanes and/or balls etc.

[Stampy79]

You guys are wrong, I have never had a ball checked once on an Honor score. The only thing they want to know is if the serial number is readable. If that house did not pass a local inspection and it was not turned in to the USBC, they could loose their sanction. If it was turned in, then I suggest not shooting an honor score until they fix it. For god sakes, they only need about 3 units of oil on any board to pass. I think your lane guy is full of it in my opinion. Just looking to start crap. If there is no oil at all on that area, you will know it.

[hammer25]

Agreed, he is currently running less than 3 units outside. He hears complaining about the shot all the time, but of course they all do not know that it is illegal. It is easier to get to the pocket out there because you are going around all the straight ball throwers in the middle part of the lane. But, it is a tough carry for me. A lot of nine pins if my speed is not right. Not complaining about the shot...if I can hit it correctly I score.

Actually he use to own the place so he knows all about the complaining that goes on...not sure if that is his reasoning for putting that shot out or not.

[Stampy79]

Well, if I owned that house, my reasoning for firing him would be because he was knowingly laying out an illegal shot. If they cant score with 3-5 units from 10 to gutter, they cant score on anything ! They need to learn to bowl !

[TenPinSniper]

Woohoo Stampy where is this house shot you speak of wuth 5 units of oil in the bumper area. Five units of oil on the outside has to be over the USBC's legal limits for Adult Bumper Bowling. (aka ABB) :D


We get three units and when the weather warms ups you better stay inside of it... you could probably bounce it off the bumper and hit the 7 pin, if you wanted.

[Rowdy]

the usbc isnt what it was as abc way back in the day an abc rep would have to show up after an honor score was shot and noone was allowed to bowl after league was done to verify it was a legal shot but they dont do it anymore and also noone knows your balls are legal unless you go to nationals i wonder how many honor scores are bowled with illegal balls a few years ago the house proshop had new guy in drilling and everyone that went to nationals had something illegal with there balls and who knows how many honor scores were shot and also its not like you have any honor awards anymore anyway we have one guy just last tuesday is his first league and first time sancationing he aves 160 and he shot a 299 game and gets nothing for it not 100 over not over avg for series just a bs plaque they need to make it were if your first timer you should get all those awards but usbc is so cheap i know most my leagues after 2009 unless something changes will not sancation anymore 85% of bowlers dont bowl tournaments and the rest of us can just buy a card at nationals whats the point of paying the dues when we get nothing in return if they want to control honor scores go back the old way and check the league shot after honor scores

How many honor scores are bowled with an illegal ball? More than you would want to know about. I know of three balls that have racked up scores for three different bowlers. All those balls came out of the same pro shop. All three balls have 4 OUNCES too much in side weight. One of the guys throwing that gear is the owner of the pro shop. They roll and then they haul ass as soon as the league or tournament is over. They never try to take the cash. Why? While they're racking up the score,all three guys are drumming up business for the pro shop. They pay a $40 entry fee and make God knows how much money selling and drilling balls. That shop has a two week waiting list to get a ball drilled. Go figure.

[Stampy79]

Ok, I need to hear your opinion on what having 4 ounces of side weight does for a bowling ball and what advantage it has !

[pipes]

Ok, I need to hear your opinion on what having 4 ounces of side weight does for a bowling ball and what advantage it has !

IMO it only gives an advantage to someone who most likely DON't need it ayway . Because you have to know when and what to use it on and how ! In the hands a the right person it a hit harder hook in oil harder and score but thats just my guess based on well my guess :D

[JaraTo]

Positive and negative side weights have effects on when and how much the ball will hook. A ball with positive side weight will hook later and hook more. A ball with negative side weight will hook sooner and hook less.

[Stampy79]

Well, I leave alot of solid 9 pins. I dont think I need much drive.

[Rowdy]

Ok, I need to hear your opinion on what having 4 ounces of side weight does for a bowling ball and what advantage it has !

Four ounces of sideweight in the right place will make that ball hook into the pins harder,even when thrown as hard as you can. A ball like that in the hands of a really big cranker means that everyone else is shooting for second place.

[BubbaRay]

Four ounces of sideweight in the right place will make that ball hook into the pins harder,even when thrown as hard as you can. A ball like that in the hands of a really big cranker means that everyone else is shooting for second place.

Kind of like when Tiger Woods enters a Tournament and everyone sees his name on the list. Now everyone is playing for second place.

[jhufstedler]

If your association board of directors were doing their job, you house would have a legal shot. They are able to run Tape and any given time they so choose to. They can check it and tell the owner/manager that the lanes have to meet certain specs, if the specs are not met, than that can effect future honor scores that are shot. I have bowled in several houses that will put up a graph of the house shot. They also update it everytime they run tape. That helps a lot. Right now at the house I bowl in now, we are having fun wondering if we have a shot to bowl on, or one we are going to have to crank the ball a lot. They are having trouble with the oiling machine not stripping the lanes right. I am all for bowling tough conditions, so I use the tough lane conditions to try new things, different lines trying to find the best shot into the pocket. Always making notes for future use.

[olie2832]

at my brother's league the whole oiling machine goes down the whole lane and hits all the pins down. is that normal?

[JoshWithrow]

Kind of like when Tiger Woods enters a Tournament and everyone sees his name on the list. Now everyone is playing for second place.

Yeah, but Tiger's not using spiked clubs. And he still needs to work on his Driving and Putting ;) His irons, pitches/wedges are his best game. Outside of those he's somewhat finicky.

[Young300]

at my brother's league the whole oiling machine goes down the whole lane and hits all the pins down. is that normal?

Yes. The oiling machine is oiling the lane and stripping the backends of carry down (hopefully) all at the same time. It's quite time saving instead of having to do it twice with the same machine.

[grayfin68]

Yeah, but Tiger's not using spiked clubs. And he still needs to work on his Driving and Putting ;) His irons, pitches/wedges are his best game. Outside of those he's somewhat finicky.

Tiger's putting is as good as it gets in golf. Tiger really has no weaknesses but he obviously works on his game and is always trying to and getting better. Pretty much any tour pro would take Tiger's putting even on his bad days.

As for his driving, the only time he's wild off the tee is when he's trying to bomb it. He doesn't have to hit fairways because his irons and scrambling ability are so good but he is longer than a lot of players with a 3 wood off the tee and he has shown a lot of restraint by using shorter clubs off the tee.

[Rowdy]

Yeah, but Tiger's not using spiked clubs. And he still needs to work on his Driving and Putting ;) His irons, pitches/wedges are his best game. Outside of those he's somewhat finicky.

Riiight. And that 24 footer he drained to win at Arnies tournament was just dumb luck,I'm sure.:rolleyes: