Any coaches promote different styles?

[knd]

Are any of you coaches coaching players with more then one style? What I mean is a player can throw tweener cranker or flat hand or any other stlye. I have noticed that many bowl a certian way for their strike ball and change for the spares. Couldnt learning more then one style just give you more arsenal to destroy the compition when conditions call for it? Or is bowling so skill oriented that it takes one style to master and change only complicates the process?

[JaraTo]

Take a look at Norm Duke or Chris Barnes. Both considered "masters" of versatiliy. Though they don't change their styles as drastically an entire approach from stroker to cranker they are dubious for using different hand positions combined with axis tilt and rotation to adapt to different conditions. Many times I've seen these two bowl on a pair during match and use two comletely different line on the same pattern. It's not uncommon to see Barnes play deep inside one shot then play straight and in on the other lane. I think making changes as drastic as what you're suggesting are a bit unnecessarily but I still stand by the belief that every person should know how to throw a straight ball for one and two pin spares. Pains me to watch ppl hook the hell outta the ball then resort to the same thing for spare only converting 50% of the time.

[Rowdy]

Are any of you coaches coaching players with more then one style? What I mean is a player can throw tweener cranker or flat hand or any other stlye. I have noticed that many bowl a certian way for their strike ball and change for the spares. Couldnt learning more then one style just give you more arsenal to destroy the compition when conditions call for it? Or is bowling so skill oriented that it takes one style to master and change only complicates the process?

It's not so much a different style as it is being able to throw the same ball on different lines to score. I have a "Plan A" for each ball to start with,and then a "Plan B" in case the first line isn't working.

Take my NoMercy Beat'n for example,on our basic THS,Plan A would be to lay the ball down on the 10 and have it go out to the 5. Let's say this shot isn't working at all. Plan B would be to move inside,lay the ball down on the 20 and let it go out to the 13-14 board. Then adjust as necessary from there.

[knd]

Yeah I understand that part but I feel thats more stratigic. I am talking straight Physics here. If you could start out bowling cranker style for power and hooking for strikes then when the lanes dry or change turn to a tweener style for grace accuracy and style and then turn into a stright on the top bowler when called for.
Its like in the NFL if your a run up the middle team and they have a strong front line stopping you every time then you pass the ball. Same objective and goals but completely different methods.
Like I have been using my coaches methods of straight armswing on spares and it been working good for me. I can keep the ball straight and fast on the target and have improve from 30% to around 75% pick up doing this. But when played as the strike ball we relized my strikes went from 4-5 a game to under 2 a game. They both are now trying to incorperate both styles of bowling, One for my strike throw (Modified cranker) and the other (tweener) for my spare shots.

[JaraTo]

Physics? Who says you need to be a cranker to generate power?

[knd]

was not saying thats the only power but lets see a tweener throw a ball with over 600 revs and use the whole lane. Its few and far between.

[JaraTo]

Yea but you don't need to. That's why crankers are notorious for not being able to adjust to difficult conditions. All your evidence is on the PBA tour. The most successful lot are mainly strokers.

[knd]

Thats true and my point. They are amazing when they have the lane condition and youd just stand back and watch. But when the lanes dries watch out their ball is most likely making a u-turn. So why not be a cranker when lanes allow it and a tweener when they change?

[Thepainscoming]

Thats true and my point. They are amazing when they have the lane condition and youd just stand back and watch. But when the lanes dries watch out their ball is most likely making a u-turn. So why not be a cranker when lanes allow it and a tweener when they change?
U just described pete weber or Walter Ray right there.

[knd]

Wow I am gonna have to get some video of them. I have never seen them before. I would love to watch a dual style in action.

[idlehourlegend]

Thats true and my point. They are amazing when they have the lane condition and youd just stand back and watch. But when the lanes dries watch out their ball is most likely making a u-turn. So why not be a cranker when lanes allow it and a tweener when they change?

You have to have more than one style if you want to be able to go somewhere in this sport. I am a cranker, but can be a tweener/stroker even when the time calls for it, just have to be able to follow the shot and be able to make lots of adjustments(hand pos.,finger pos.,feet, target, breakpoint, speed, etc...).

[blistershurt]

You dont change styles per say, you change hand positions. I know with Pete Weber, he starts coming straight off the ball when he needs less hook, and same with WRW. They just adjust with speed, hand positions, and wrist positions.

[JaraTo]

You have to have more than one style if you want to be able to go somewhere in this sport. I am a cranker, but can be a tweener/stroker even when the time calls for it, just have to be able to follow the shot and be able to make lots of adjustments(hand pos.,finger pos.,feet, target, breakpoint, speed, etc...).

Style is defined by your approach. You mean to tell me you change your approach. No sir I think not.

You dont change styles per say, you change hand positions. I know with Pete Weber, he starts coming straight off the ball when he needs less hook, and same with WRW. They just adjust with speed, hand positions, and wrist positions.

I bet this is what you meant when you said you "have to have more than one style". Hand positions , ball placement, and ball speed.

[Rowdy]

Style is defined by your approach. You mean to tell me you change your approach. No sir I think not.

Of course you can. I can stand at the back of the approach and really thunder up to the line for a dry shot or move forward about 3 feet and take slower steps and deliver the ball from more of a leverage position for oilier shots. You gotta learn to use the shot that will work on that lane at that time.

My Wed. night league is on more of a drier house shot,so moving back and letting it fly is the ticket. The power game rules here. You can miss your mark a little and still carry the shot off. Thursday night is PBA patterns,so accuracy is more important. So I move up and walk slower. Plus the backswing is a little higher to make up for the slower walk.

Remember the Marine Corps motto: Adapt,Improvise,Overcome.

[JaraTo]

Kudos, not being sarcastic at all. I'm trying to envision someone going from a plant and pull cranker, to a rhythmic easy sliding stroker. Huge difference, but maybe I was thinking way too extreme outside of the intended boundaries of the discussion.

[idlehourlegend]

Of course you can. I can stand at the back of the approach and really thunder up to the line for a dry shot or move forward about 3 feet and take slower steps and deliver the ball from more of a leverage position for oilier shots. You gotta learn to use the shot that will work on that lane at that time.

My Wed. night league is on more of a drier house shot,so moving back and letting it fly is the ticket. The power game rules here. You can miss your mark a little and still carry the shot off. Thursday night is PBA patterns,so accuracy is more important. So I move up and walk slower. Plus the backswing is a little higher to make up for the slower walk.

Remember the Marine Corps motto: Adapt,Improvise,Overcome.

Thank You for explaining it for me. Thats what I was talking about, changing the length of the approach, and changing the backswing height, hand postions, just about everything to be able to play a certain way.

[knd]

Ok here's one I am right handed and start far left. I shoot spares from middle. when lanes change I move right never past the 20 and flaten out my 30 board hook. When I shoot strike ball I use fingers and thumb. If i am shooting at a spare thats right of head pin I shoot thumbless and kill revs (mostly). Also on strike balls I approach with a pause spares I don't.

[Rowdy]

Kudos, not being sarcastic at all. I'm trying to envision someone going from a plant and pull cranker, to a rhythmic easy sliding stroker. Huge difference, but maybe I was thinking way too extreme outside of the intended boundaries of the discussion.

Hey,I can do cranker,stroker or tweener. Which delivery would you like to see? Just don't count on much in the way of accuracy on one of those deliveries. I can also do passable imitations of Norm Duke,Walter Ray,Chris Barnes,Tommy Jones,Danny Wiseman,Don Carter and others. I can do everything from no revs up to 325 of 'em if I wind it all the way up,like TJ does. We all know how to roll like TJ around here,it's a South Carolina thang.;)

[JaraTo]

The person that figures out how do to all those accurately and effectively, emphasis on accurately, will be unstoppable

[Rowdy]

The person that figures out how do to all those accurately and effectively, emphasis on accurately, will be unstoppable

I'm definatly stopable........:rolleyes:

[knd]

I'm definatly stopable........:rolleyes:

Me? I haven't enven started yet

[blistershurt]

I will say this again, it all comes down to wrist positions, hand positions, ball speed, and adjustments. You will NEVER see a player on the PBA change their entire approach's timing (crankers have what is considered late timing, strokers have "good" timing), you will see them move left, right, forward, and back on the approach in conjunction with wrist, hand, and speed adjustments.

Look at Norm Duke, he likes to play the outside line, but when its not working he moves in, cups his wrist and turns more on the ball, causing more revs and hook, but he doesnt change his style, he changes components of it.

If you manage to be able to actually switch styles (NOT RELEASES) meaning timing too, video tape it and put it on youtube, because I have to see this, its just not possible to do all 3 accurately, everyone is meant to throw one of the three styles, not all 3. You will never see a smooth stroker go up to the lane being late on timing and just randomly plant and pull because their style isnt working, they will change their wrist position and hand position(usually their feet position before either of these as well), which will change their swing path and release.

[JaraTo]

I will say this again, it all comes down to wrist positions, hand positions, ball speed, and adjustments. You will NEVER see a player on the PBA change their entire approach's timing (crankers have what is considered late timing, strokers have "good" timing), you will see them move left, right, forward, and back on the approach in conjunction with wrist, hand, and speed adjustments.

Look at Norm Duke, he likes to play the outside line, but when its not working he moves in, cups his wrist and turns more on the ball, causing more revs and hook, but he doesnt change his style, he changes components of it.

If you manage to be able to actually switch styles (NOT RELEASES) meaning timing too, video tape it and put it on youtube, because I have to see this, its just not possible to do all 3 accurately, everyone is meant to throw one of the three styles, not all 3. You will never see a smooth stroker go up to the lane being late on timing and just randomly plant and pull because their style isnt working, they will change their wrist position and hand position(usually their feet position before either of these as well), which will change their swing path and release.

Finally someone got what I was saying.

[No Mercy07]

I will say this again, it all comes down to wrist positions, hand positions, ball speed, and adjustments. You will NEVER see a player on the PBA change their entire approach's timing (crankers have what is considered late timing, strokers have "good" timing), you will see them move left, right, forward, and back on the approach in conjunction with wrist, hand, and speed adjustments.

Look at Norm Duke, he likes to play the outside line, but when its not working he moves in, cups his wrist and turns more on the ball, causing more revs and hook, but he doesnt change his style, he changes components of it.

If you manage to be able to actually switch styles (NOT RELEASES) meaning timing too, video tape it and put it on youtube, because I have to see this, its just not possible to do all 3 accurately, everyone is meant to throw one of the three styles, not all 3. You will never see a smooth stroker go up to the lane being late on timing and just randomly plant and pull because their style isnt working, they will change their wrist position and hand position(usually their feet position before either of these as well), which will change their swing path and release.

Come to Nashville, and we'll travel to the gazoo of bowling alleys that are here(all different) and I'll show you a smooth transition between styles when the lanes call for it... My timing would be correct. I change just about everything except my backswing(I might lower it a bit).

[blistershurt]

Alright then, get me a video of it, that'd be nice.

[No Mercy07]

Whats better than in person... In person you could get all angles... Even front if you want. It wont bother me.

[blistershurt]

Well, I'm not going to be doing any traveling anytime soon, I got surgery on my slide leg again in a few weeks, getting metal out, then after it heals I get to find out if I ruptured my petallar tendon in that same knee, joy.

Just get video, I wanna see this, because its impossible to do all 3 styles and still score well, you'd screw up your timing on your regular shot(which you wouldnt have one because you'd be too busy switching styles)

[No Mercy07]

Score well?

I've shot 290+ throwing all three different ways

299 Stroker
297 Tweener
290 Cranker


I'll get you a video don't worry... I'll be sure to PM it to you as well as make a thread


Just a little info, When I crank I'm planting, when I'm strokin' I'm sliding, and when I'm tweenin' I'm sliding less, but not planting...

[No Mercy07]

And BTW my regular shot is cranker just an FYI since you don't think someone can bowl more than one way..

[blistershurt]

I'm from Missouri, you gotta show me, havent you heard? :rolleyes:

[No Mercy07]

Apparently..

Like I said, the next time we go to our local 24 hr spot I'll grab the camera, and "show you"

[JaraTo]

Not to add fuel to the fire but bowling 290+ with all three tells me nothing. What do you avg using each.

[No Mercy07]

Well I mean I don't walk into a league saying... "Well I think I'm going to stroke it today"

My normal shot is a cranker, and when that doesn't work I adjust, and when that doesn't work I change everything...

But around 210 all together.

[blistershurt]

I'm expecting big things now dude, I really wanna see this, I dont just wanna see difference in amount of sliding either, i want timing differences, now you have me wondering

[knd]

Its not imposible Its very pausable if you think about it. Look at baseball all hitters have their own style and several different stances and timming swings. They adjust when their lane (the pitch) calls for it. Besides just look at my old style and new style videos. I am maintaining around a 150, 160's average with both. Hey No Mercy I live in tullahoma TN, i can get video of you just name where. Iwant to bowl man. But remeber I am not saying I am good at all for any of these styles yet so we will video him not me.


Just get video, I wanna see this, because its impossible to do all 3 styles and still score well, you'd screw up your timing on your regular shot(which you wouldnt have one because you'd be too busy switching styles)

[BWB88]

Yeah im gonna have to back nomercy on this one! I mean i can play all three as well! when i crank i go to 4 step approch tweener is my normal and storker thats what i used to be. not really a big deal dont know what the fuss is about but u really gotta be versitle to bowl where we do we have like 5 or 6 allys within like 15 miles and they are all differnt we will make the video no problem!

[No Mercy07]

Yeah im gonna have to back nomercy on this one! I mean i can play all three as well! when i crank i go to 4 step approch tweener is my normal and storker thats what i used to be. not really a big deal dont know what the fuss is about but u really gotta be versitle to bowl where we do we have like 5 or 6 allys within like 15 miles and they are all differnt we will make the video no problem!

Yeah and there is a couple of alleys that I dont even know if they know what they are laying down.. lol

[Rowdy]

I will say this again, it all comes down to wrist positions, hand positions, ball speed, and adjustments. You will NEVER see a player on the PBA change their entire approach's timing (crankers have what is considered late timing, strokers have "good" timing), you will see them move left, right, forward, and back on the approach in conjunction with wrist, hand, and speed adjustments.

Look at Norm Duke, he likes to play the outside line, but when its not working he moves in, cups his wrist and turns more on the ball, causing more revs and hook, but he doesnt change his style, he changes components of it.

If you manage to be able to actually switch styles (NOT RELEASES) meaning timing too, video tape it and put it on youtube, because I have to see this, its just not possible to do all 3 accurately, everyone is meant to throw one of the three styles, not all 3. You will never see a smooth stroker go up to the lane being late on timing and just randomly plant and pull because their style isnt working, they will change their wrist position and hand position(usually their feet position before either of these as well), which will change their swing path and release.

Well,yeah,you'll never see a PBA pro change styles,but that doesn't mean it isn't done.

When the lanes are totally fried,died and laid aside,I'll go from tweener to cranker,just to get the ball down there with some oomph on it. I'm talking a Tommy Jones looking shot. When the Exxon Valdez crashes and the lanes are flooded,watch me go from tweener to stroker. Norm Duke is the model here.

Sorry if you and JaraTo think no one can pull it off,but I'm here to tell you guys that not only can I do it,I roll with a bunch of guys who can do it too.

[JaraTo]

...I'm over it

[blistershurt]

I honestly done care anymore either, its not practical otherwise you'd see pros doing it.

[5iron]

I believe it can be done because I do it myself. I normally throw the 3rd arrow and the other day the lanes were very dry and the balls that I used became very inconsistent. I started playing the 5 board and boy it was fun making everyone turn around and look to see what was happening. It was very easy to do because I kept my hand behind the ball all the time and didn't turn my hand at all. Just push or let the ball fall off your hand,thumb first and anyone can throw the Norm Duke shot. If you want the ball to turn a bit at the end just put a little loft on it and you will have a hard snapper on the backend.:)

[daniel275]

You have to have many different styles to be able to compete or even stay close in bowling. If you are in a tournament and you aren't paying attention to the other bowlers around you and where they are throwing it, then you wont have a clue and you will be lost when you have to move a pair of lanes.If you can only throw it one way you will be in for a long night.:)