Venom Drilling Question

[elzercat]

Okay...I have been going back and forth on purchasing a Venom or Psycho. So last night I stopped by the ProShop...and he had some Venom's in stock! The ball just sat there..looking at me and I could swear I heard it say something. :) So..I bought it!

The main reason I went to the Venom was I am looking to have a different "look" in my bag. The Anger and BV are and are drilled to be smooth arcing. I am leaning towards the skip/flip layout but noticed that the BW series also has a drilling that is a Smooth Arc (drilling #4). The ball motion description says excellent length with smooth arc. How much of a difference in length do you think one would see between the skip/flip layout versus the smooth arc layout.

[idlehourlegend]

I havent seen or thrown a Venom yet, but the skid/ flip and length/smooth arc, might give you the same length but the difference is the skid/flip is going to go long then snap hard, but the length/arc, is going to go long then give you a smooth arc, just depends on what you want it to do.

[JaraTo]

Have one of my BWP drilled with #4 drilling. When both were at the same surface , other is skid/flip, I could throw them ont he same line. Only difference was the arcing motion made that one more consistent because of the entry angle. It will move a little sooner but has nice continuation through the deck.

[elzercat]

Yeah..that's what I was thinking as well. The smooth arc layout might start it's roll a little sooner. I just haven't thrown a ball laid out as skip/flip and feeling a little bit of uncertainty. The proshop has been on me since last October to get a ball that's skid/flip as he feels I would really throw well and have fun with that type of ball. At that time though I had just gotten back to bowling after a long period off...but now a year later...rust is off and I'm rolling well. So I have a little more confidence in trying something new.

[bluerrpilot]

The biggest differenc in those layouts is the placement of the mass bias. The ball starts up sooner becasue the pin is going to be closer to your pap. The MB being farther away from pap and past the 75deg mark is whats smoothing the ball out.

if you drilled the Venom skid/flip it would be more controllable then the BWP. Its not as jerky off the spot

[Rowdy]

Since this is a Gas Mask core ball,what you're probably looking for in a drill isn't on the instruction sheet. I've got one ball drilled skid/flip and it takes an arcing path to the pocket when the lanes dry out.

Now,move the thumbhole over almost 6 inches from the HMB and put the pin up and to the right of the ring finger. You'll just stand at the foul line and laugh,the thing goes straight and then hangs a left thats unbeliveable.

[blistershurt]

The Venom is pearl, so it will go longer than your Anger and BV (assuming all are OOB finish)

This ball has a bit of a midlane read for a pearl, so if you go with skid/flip, it will still be predictable, and give you a much different look than the rest of your stuff.

[JaraTo]

Since this is a Gas Mask core ball,what you're probably looking for in a drill isn't on the instruction sheet. I've got one ball drilled skid/flip and it takes an arcing path to the pocket when the lanes dry out.

Now,move the thumbhole over almost 6 inches from the HMB and put the pin up and to the right of the ring finger. You'll just stand at the foul line and laugh,the thing goes straight and then hangs a left thats unbeliveable.

As is my Bite drilled that way..... Took two redrills to finally get it right. Didn't like any of the other layouts. But Rowdy is spot on. I can't imagine how a Venom would be with the same layout. Flare is unbelievable on mine.

[blistershurt]

Hey, out of curiousity, what is your PAP? If you dont know your pap, what do you track? What is your style of play?

[Sabotage]

Since this is a Gas Mask core ball,what you're probably looking for in a drill isn't on the instruction sheet. I've got one ball drilled skid/flip and it takes an arcing path to the pocket when the lanes dry out.

Now,move the thumbhole over almost 6 inches from the HMB and put the pin up and to the right of the ring finger. You'll just stand at the foul line and laugh,the thing goes straight and then hangs a left thats unbeliveable.

that'd be insane. i have a hard enough time keeping my venom on the right and i have pretty damn high speed. i dont even wanna imagine my venom with that drill if it does what you say :eek:

[Thepainscoming]

rowdy, ur description is so vaige. it could do different things becuase of length to PAP and if someone is a low tracker and they do that, it might be too far past the VAL to invert flare

[elzercat]

So the proshop and I chatted. Told him I was leaning towards a skid/flip layout so I have a different look. From what it sounds like...it will at least be laid out close to the skid/flip layout. Pin up, cg kicked out a bit...not sure where the hmb will be..I imagine to the right (if looking at the ball fingers up/thumb down).

He should have it ready for me tomorrow...he's had personal stuff to attend to..so there is an outside shot he won't have it ready. :( I really hope he does, I am really anxious to throw this ball. I'll try to snap a picture and post it tomorrow.

BTW..I went and prebowled tonight...heading to the Eagles pre-season football game Thursday night. Anyway...there was a league that came in and to my surprise...someone had a Psycho! Understand that I have only seen a handful of Hammers in the house I bowl in (the proshop I go to is at another house). Wow...that ball looks so nice in "person". The guy throwing it unfortunately didn't have that great of a release...but it was enough to see the ball do its magic. Wow...I liked what I was seeing. A guy I bowl with was saying..."Man...you can see how nice that goes through the heads and boom...nice backend." I told him...get ready...wait to you see the Venom in action! :cool:

[JaraTo]

rowdy, ur description is so vaige. it could do different things becuase of length to PAP and if someone is a low tracker and they do that, it might be too far past the VAL to invert flare

I have a 4 1/2 and 7/8 up PAP for reference purposes. It goes long revs up, appears like it's goin to die but makes a hard turn..... and I mean LONG. Surprised me the first time I threw a decent line with it. It revs up hard.

[Rowdy]

rowdy, ur description is so vaige. it could do different things becuase of length to PAP and if someone is a low tracker and they do that, it might be too far past the VAL to invert flare

Dude,stop being such a downer. That thing has a Gas Mask core in it,right? No one knows how to throw that core like I do. I've rolled that core over 2500 games,I know what it will and won't do. The cover on that ball isn't going to be THAT big a difference. And the description isn't vague,it's the same one I wrote about thats in my BWS. If he wants the instructions all he has to do is ask.

The drill ain't in no instruction sheet,and the thing is awesome! I spent a lot of time and money getting it exactly right. Or don't you want a ball that hangs a 50 degree turn at the 53-54 foot mark and goes through the rack like a starving man at an all you can eat dinner?

[Rowdy]

Hey, out of curiousity, what is your PAP? If you dont know your pap, what do you track? What is your style of play?

Mine is somewhere around the positive axis point of the ball,which moves as the ball goes down the lane. I still for the life of me can't understand what the hangup is you guys have with knowing where the PAP is. What you should be looking for is the PSA of the ball. Which is fixed. Which is a much better point to start drawing lines from.

I can throw on any track,but all my stuff is drilled to roll on a medium track. It's just easier on me and my hand that way.

I don't have a style of play. Why lock yourself into one way of thinking??? I roll several balls on different lines and use what looks best that night. Now once I've seen what a lane will GENERALLY do,I'll pull what worked last time out of the bag first and adjust from there. On Wed night it'll be the N'sane first out of the bag. Not hooking enough on the backend? Grab the BWS with the big drill and rock and roll. Next night,different house,it's the BWS out first and move to the N'sane when the line dries just a touch. Move to Friday and another different house and it's the NoMercy Beat'n up first,then switch to the skid/flip BWS if needed. If I need to plow the oil I've always got the Truck in the bag. That relic still gets it done when the going gets sloppy.

[elzercat]

Hey, out of curiousity, what is your PAP? If you dont know your pap, what do you track? What is your style of play?

It's interesting...I was a mid-high tracker...then in January/February timeframe I started tracking differently...like an inverted track...a cranker track. I never considered myself a cranker by any means. But that's how it's tracking lately. I consider myself a tweener, throwing around 16.5 mph. I usually play around the 20 to 10 or 15 to 8 line. Occassionally I'll head inside when everybody and their brother is playing outside.

[Rowdy]

It's interesting...I was a mid-high tracker...then in January/February timeframe I started tracking differently...like an inverted track...a cranker track. I never considered myself a cranker by any means. But that's how it's tracking lately. I consider myself a tweener, throwing around 16.5 mph. I usually play around the 20 to 10 or 15 to 8 line. Occassionally I'll head inside when everybody and their brother is playing outside.

Crankers have a track???:confused:

[JaraTo]

Dude,stop being such a downer. That thing has a Gas Mask core in it,right? No one knows how to throw that core like I do. I've rolled that core over 2500 games,I know what it will and won't do. The cover on that ball isn't going to be THAT big a difference. And the description isn't vague,it's the same one I wrote about thats in my BWS. If he wants the instructions all he has to do is ask.

The drill ain't in no instruction sheet,and the thing is awesome! I spent a lot of time and money getting it exactly right. Or don't you want a ball that hangs a 50 degree turn at the 53-54 foot mark and goes through the rack like a starving man at an all you can eat dinner?

Angle drill right? First ball I had using that approach. Driller decided why not after coming back from a seminar. The ball had already been drilled twice.

[blistershurt]

It's interesting...I was a mid-high tracker...then in January/February timeframe I started tracking differently...like an inverted track...a cranker track. I never considered myself a cranker by any means. But that's how it's tracking lately. I consider myself a tweener, throwing around 16.5 mph. I usually play around the 20 to 10 or 15 to 8 line. Occassionally I'll head inside when everybody and their brother is playing outside.

I see. Meaning NONE of the generic drills on that sheet are going to work for you, have your driller find your PAP, and lay the ball out according to what Hammer recommends for pin to PAP distance on a skid/flip drill, and but the mass bias in what they call the strong position

Hahaha,...I still consider myself a stroker, but i know I'm not, I still look pretty smooth like a stroker, so I guess I'm a tweener. I throw 18-19 mph, with 350 rpm just about(low axis rotation, maybe 30 degrees at max, anymore and I lose all of my speed), I dont have an inverted track, my PAP is about 6 over (no up/down at all). I throw all weaker drilled stuff (everything is 5 3/4ths inches to PAP that I throw now, and I still am forced in pretty deep on the lane at times), my next ball will be an experiment. My NM is going to have a shorter pin to PAP than I have ever tried before.

[Thepainscoming]

Dude,stop being such a downer. That thing has a Gas Mask core in it,right? No one knows how to throw that core like I do. I've rolled that core over 2500 games,I know what it will and won't do. The cover on that ball isn't going to be THAT big a difference. And the description isn't vague,it's the same one I wrote about thats in my BWS. If he wants the instructions all he has to do is ask.

The drill ain't in no instruction sheet,and the thing is awesome! I spent a lot of time and money getting it exactly right. Or don't you want a ball that hangs a 50 degree turn at the 53-54 foot mark and goes through the rack like a starving man at an all you can eat dinner?
rowdy i didn't talk about the cover AT ALL in my post, and no i dont want a ball that does that, i hate balls that do that, it makes it way too uncontrollable.

[elzercat]

Crankers have a track???:confused:

:) Just going off of a link that was sent to me a while back:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/tTracks.htm

[Armyproud]

I have my psycho drilled with both pattern 4 with a high track and drill pattern 3 with a medium track and like people have stated on the site. It depends on where you track. I have a high track but choose to go witha low track and it workded great on dry lanes. But on pattern 4 with a high track it is great for dry lanes but the reaction to the pocket on lanes that are really oily it has trouble sometimes getting to the pocket. It is a great ball but if you bowl on really oily lanes I would go with drill pattern 2 or 3 with a medium track. I normally throw balls with a 2-3" pin and they have done great for me on the PBA Patterns.

I hope that this helps.

[Rowdy]

Angle drill right? First ball I had using that approach. Driller decided why not after coming back from a seminar. The ball had already been drilled twice.

Sorta. I took a little from Mo's Dual Angle,a little from Tony Revs,a little from PA,and a lot of what I thought was going on inside the ball. Physics is physics after all. Newton's Third Law...or is it Fifth,I forget...it's not the gravity one,that involves dropping the ball on your foot...but I kinda threw it all at the ball,drew some lines and punched the holes with a lot of weighing and reweighing going on. Held my breath and chunked the thing down the lane. It hooks like it's on steroids and it's legal,what more do you need???

[BubbaRay]

elzercat. Here's what I did . I had mine drilled with the most agressive drill layout possible. The ball was like someone kicked it left at the breakpoint. Well I took the ball down to 2000 abralon and it smoothed the ball down. It still was real strong but not that real hard snap at the end.