Venom..all drilled up!

[elzercat]

ProShop got it drilled up for me today..and I have been throwing it since. :rolleyes: Threw about 10 games tonight and I am loving the ball (all over 200). It is the different look I was looking for. It's funny...when that ball starts its roll...hold on!

Taking a little time to get use to...as I am more accustomed to the smooth arc of my Anger and Vibe. I also dropped down to 15lbs. So I am also playing around with my speed as well.

I've attached a picture of my new toy. :)

[Sabotage]

the ball is just absolutetly a sexy beast. the movement on this ball is incredible and handles a lot more oil than i thought it would. any videos?

[elzercat]

Nope...no video. That's the next investment. :rolleyes:

I bowled on fresh lanes and was also pleasantly surprised as well. The ball was moving more than I thought it would. The ball has a great finish...sometimes too much. I did notice I was leaving more 9-pins than usual. Just need to work some more with the ball. But like I said...I am really liking the different look I'm getting on medium lanes.

[Rowdy]

I like it. That thing oughta be good for you. 15's a good weight,easy to spin it up. Make sure you clean the ball,now.:rolleyes:

[Sabotage]

Nope...no video. That's the next investment. :rolleyes:

I bowled on fresh lanes and was also pleasantly surprised as well. The ball was moving more than I thought it would. The ball has a great finish...sometimes too much. I did notice I was leaving more 9-pins than usual. Just need to work some more with the ball. But like I said...I am really liking the different look I'm getting on medium lanes.

yea ive noticed more 9 pins as well. the ball finishes incredibly strong and sometimes too strong. in the 2 weeks ive had it, i swear ive left more 9 pins than ever. amazing ball though

[Rowdy]

yea ive noticed more 9 pins as well. the ball finishes incredibly strong and sometimes too strong. in the 2 weeks ive had it, i swear ive left more 9 pins than ever. amazing ball though

Either move up a little or go left a board or two. That'll stop those pesky 9 pins from staying up.

[Sabotage]

Either move up a little or go left a board or two. That'll stop those pesky 9 pins from staying up.

:eek:

ill move up i think. otherwise ill be throwing over the gutter like maximum bob. my wrist doesnt want that

[elzercat]

Either move up a little or go left a board or two. That'll stop those pesky 9 pins from staying up.

I moved left...then those pesty little 10-pins started showing up. LOL So then I moved up a little and started carrying more. I also have to watch my speed since jumping down to 15lbs. The house I usually bowl in doesn't track speed. It is an old electronic scoring unit. The house I had the ball drilled has more updated equipment...so I was initially able to see my speed. I usually hang around the 16.5mph...was sitting in the 17-17.5mph range when i started throwing the Venom. When I got my speed down to where I usually throw...watch out....I threw the ball on lane 14...ball hit its breakpoint and hit the pocket on lane 13. :D

[blistershurt]

Looks nice. I'd be interested in seeing one thrown, I'm looking for something to get through carrydown with A LOT less squirt than my Toxic. My Toxic is drilled weak for me (5 3/4th inches to PAP no x hole) and even with the long pin buffer, it is very long and snappy, just what I wanted for a THS. The biggest problem? Oil on the backs. Most balls, you can move left or around the carry down and be fine, with the Toxic, the ball will touch A LITTLE bit of oil and just skate into the 3 pin, and when I move outside it will leave odd things when it hits the carry down after breaking. I'm going to play with the surface soon, but I also would like to know what another good purchase would be down the line, although I've been toying with the idea of getting an EV and drilling it the same as my Toxic to test how different they are just from the cores, because I've been anxious to see how much a core actually DOES help the ball, since the EV and Toxic have the same cover.

[Thepainscoming]

KINETIC PEARL, blisters just throwing out a small suggestion lol.

[blistershurt]

KP is a good ball, but it isnt what I'm looking for, from what I've heard, it covers the same stuff as the Toxic.
Just saw the KP thrown, it is smoother than the Toxic, but I'm getting a Big B Sidewinder to use as my control ball for my next one.

[Rowdy]

because I've been anxious to see how much a core actually DOES help the ball

"Help the ball"??? What do you think makes the ball hook??? Hint:It ain't the coverstock.

Let's try it this way:If the core wasn't what made the ball hook it wouldn't matter where you drilled the fingerholes. Think spareball. No core,put the holes where ever you want. Black Widow Anything,got a core,put the fingerholes in the right place and you get a hook monster. Put 'em in the wrong place and it's a dud. Except the BWC. No core.

Now,before you get all bent out of shape,the cover does have a use. Think of the cover like the tires on a car. Old slick tires won't turn very well. New grippy tires corner really hard. To take the car analogy a step further,the core is the motor and steering wheel all rolled up in one. It makes the ball go and gives it direction. The cover,(Tires),provide the cornering traction. Both have to work together or the car,(ball) will crash.

Make sense????

[idlehourlegend]

"Help the ball"??? What do you think makes the ball hook??? Hint:It ain't the coverstock.

Let's try it this way:If the core wasn't what made the ball hook it wouldn't matter where you drilled the fingerholes. Think spareball. No core,put the holes where ever you want. Black Widow Anything,got a core,put the fingerholes in the right place and you get a hook monster. Put 'em in the wrong place and it's a dud. Except the BWC. No core.

Now,before you get all bent out of shape,the cover does have a use. Think of the cover like the tires on a car. Old slick tires won't turn very well. New grippy tires corner really hard. To take the car analogy a step further,the core is the motor and steering wheel all rolled up in one. It makes the ball go and gives it direction. The cover,(Tires),provide the cornering traction. Both have to work together or the car,(ball) will crash.

Make sense????

Ok all made sense until the ball crashing part, dont we want the ball to crash? into the pins of course.:p

[Rowdy]

Ok all made sense until the ball crashing part, dont we want the ball to crash? into the pins of course.:p

I meant crash as in drive off into the ditch.:eek:

[blistershurt]

"Help the ball"??? What do you think makes the ball hook??? Hint:It ain't the coverstock.

Let's try it this way:If the core wasn't what made the ball hook it wouldn't matter where you drilled the fingerholes. Think spareball. No core,put the holes where ever you want. Black Widow Anything,got a core,put the fingerholes in the right place and you get a hook monster. Put 'em in the wrong place and it's a dud. Except the BWC. No core.

Now,before you get all bent out of shape,the cover does have a use. Think of the cover like the tires on a car. Old slick tires won't turn very well. New grippy tires corner really hard. To take the car analogy a step further,the core is the motor and steering wheel all rolled up in one. It makes the ball go and gives it direction. The cover,(Tires),provide the cornering traction. Both have to work together or the car,(ball) will crash.

Make sense????
Physics would say that the motion that is rolling away from the ball's path of motion would cause the hook, in other words side roll, and the coverstock is causing friction and you putting side roll on the ball, combined with friction will make the ball's path change, and a spare ball DOES hook, try putting even a bit of side roll on it and it does some, all reactive pieces with pancake flip blocks in them and no core still hook (even with a weak reactive coverstock) and why? Friction.
Also, have you ever thrown a Lane 1 XXXL? It has the core that Lane 1 puts in their superaggressive stuff with a plastic coverstock and it STILL wont hook on tons of oil. Why do balls die? Not because the core stops working, its because the COVER gets too much oil in it and stops absorbing oil, or has a reduced rate of absorption. The cover is the difference between a scout and a plastic ball (per me throwing both, the Scout with a weak coverstock at OOB has around 15 more boards than the plastic)

[Rowdy]

Physics would say that the motion that is rolling away from the ball's path of motion would cause the hook, in other words side roll, and the coverstock is causing friction and you putting side roll on the ball, combined with friction will make the ball's path change, and a spare ball DOES hook, try putting even a bit of side roll on it and it does some, all reactive pieces with pancake flip blocks in them and no core still hook (even with a weak reactive coverstock) and why? Friction.
Also, have you ever thrown a Lane 1 XXXL? It has the core that Lane 1 puts in their superaggressive stuff with a plastic coverstock and it STILL wont hook on tons of oil. Why do balls die? Not because the core stops working, its because the COVER gets too much oil in it and stops absorbing oil, or has a reduced rate of absorption. The cover is the difference between a scout and a plastic ball (per me throwing both, the Scout with a weak coverstock at OOB has around 15 more boards than the plastic)

I'm gonna give this one last shot.

Pay attention.

How come I roll two balls whose only difference is that one HAS a core while the other one has a pancake core using exactly the same swing,hand,revs etc and one hooks and the other doesn't???

Now,keep in mind that both balls have the exact same coverstock on them. Same grit,same polish,same everything. One hooks big time,the other.....not so much,maybe two whole boards of movement.

So.....where's all this huge movement coming from???

Must be the....the....the....the CORE.

PLEASE don't bother with any more drivel. Stop trying to tell me what you hope is going on in a bowling ball. Go cut some open and see what's really in there. I have.

[TenPinSniper]

What balls do you have with a core and without a core that have the same coverstock. I'd like to see pictures and maybe video as well. Maybe Neo can help with the Video.

[JaraTo]

Rowdy is right, essentially he just proved the coverstock ppl's argument. Once the coverstock playing field is leveled, or the same on both balls, THEN the core becomes the numero uno factor. Thanks for clearing things up Rowdy.

[Thepainscoming]

really jara, then y is the xxxl a dry lane ball but a ball with the SAME EXACT CORE is a heavy oil ball??? now explain that.

[Curacao_Dejavu]

really jara, then y is the xxxl a dry lane ball but a ball with the SAME EXACT CORE is a heavy oil ball??? now explain that.

???
gonna try this.
because the surface absorbs the oil better, therefor there will be less oil on the lane, then the ball will grap the lane better, and boom you have your hook and strike.
skid-hook-roll.

Leopold

[Dave34]

Using such extreme examples is an easy way to prove that both matter. Obviously a plastic ball is going to hook less than a resin ball (assuming same core), and obviously a ball with no core is going to hook less than a ball with a core (assuming same coverstock). The problem is both of these have absolutely no relevance in trying to prove which matters more.

[Rowdy]

really jara, then y is the xxxl a dry lane ball but a ball with the SAME EXACT CORE is a heavy oil ball??? now explain that.

This is rapidly becoming like trying to explain to a two year old why the sun comes up every morning.

I quit.

[blistershurt]

Rowdy is right, essentially he just proved the coverstock ppl's argument. Once the coverstock playing field is leveled, or the same on both balls, THEN the core becomes the numero uno factor. Thanks for clearing things up Rowdy.

Yes, but how long has it been since all the covers on the market were the same and the core mattered a great deal? Urethane. The USBC is out to put limits on cores and not covers, so the cores will continue to have less and less effect on the ball reaction.

If you are saying between two balls with the same cover drilled differently, which matters more, core or cover, the answer then MIGHT be the core. The core will determine the difference in ball reaction, but you will notice only a few boards difference, if you do coverstock adjustments, you can get 2 balls with 2 different drills to react very closely.

[ballman789]

i'm still waiting to see wich two balls have the same cover stock but with different cores in my twenty yrs drilling balls i can't ever remember seeing that i do remember the vectorI and the vector II both were the same cover as the blk u dot with the vectorI haveing the pancake block lowered a little and the vector II having it lowered more almost in the center of the ball i do remember the II causing some peoples tracks to rise and making it role over the thumb hole I have always been under the impression from all my reading and experience that surface is 75 percent of the balls reaction (other than the operator that is) just my thoughts

[Rowdy]

The USBC is out to put limits on cores and not covers,

WHAT??? Then how in the Wide World of Sports does that explain the recent announcement from the USBC concerning coverstocks and the size of the pores in said coverstock. The USBC is going to limit the size of the pores in order to slow down the amount of hook the ball has. Small pores=less hook.

Why???

Glad you asked. Because it's the only thing the can check visually,that's why. Don't think you'd want them cutting your ball in two to look at the core,would you???

[blistershurt]

WHAT??? Then how in the Wide World of Sports does that explain the recent announcement from the USBC concerning coverstocks and the size of the pores in said coverstock. The USBC is going to limit the size of the pores in order to slow down the amount of hook the ball has. Small pores=less hook.

Why???

Glad you asked. Because it's the only thing the can check visually,that's why. Don't think you'd want them cutting your ball in two to look at the core,would you???

core differential is at a set limit now, weight blocks such as the AMB one from Visionary are grandfathered in, but they wouldnt be legal if they were invented tomorrow.

Why do you grab a ball with more or less surface when adjusting to a condition ever so slightly (especially noticeable on sport shots here) and not a ball with a stronger core? If your argument is correct, logic would state that a weaker cored ball at a 500 grit finish will still hook and read the lane less than a stronger cored ball at 4000 polished. Do you know what makes a car move? The tires. You're not going ANYWHERE without them, and the core isnt the steering wheel on a ball, the core is closer to being an axl, it HELPS the tires rotate, but it DOES NOT CAUSE the tires to rotate.

If cores were the main factor in a bowling ball's reaction, my old Cherry Vibe at 500 polish WOULD NOT have outhooked my old Black Widow at 2000. (the Widow was drilled more aggressive in fact, and WAS NOT rolling out.)
The answer to that would be a cover difference. Why do you have a BWS and a BWP if the core is the main factor? That would mean that you essentially own 2 of the same balls, just one with a different name and color.

And I'm out of this bickering while I still have some dignity intact, I shouldnt have to take so long to prove a point to people who dont WANT to listen, especially when reading and re-reading the other said party's arguments dont make sense the first or fifth time through, it just looks more and more like I'm arguing against a wall.

Edit: I really havent been in the bowling loop exactly the last 6 or so months, been busy with rehab and all that crap, so I didnt hear about that, but they can test the cores and already have...ugh, I dont need anymore stress from arguing a pointless argument, especially with all I have going on right now. Weeeee....off for more ultrasound and ice 'massages' on my knee, turns out I have tendinitis in TWO places in my sliding knee.

[Rowdy]

Why do you grab a ball with more or less surface when adjusting to a condition ever so slightly (especially noticeable on sport shots here) and not a ball with a stronger core? If your argument is correct, logic would state that a weaker cored ball at a 500 grit finish will still hook and read the lane less than a stronger cored ball at 4000 polished. Do you know what makes a car move? The tires.

The answer to that would be a cover difference. Why do you have a BWS and a BWP if the core is the main factor? That would mean that you essentially own 2 of the same balls, just one with a different name and color.

1. I always grab the strongest ball first. Try it sometime.

2. Don't know about your kiddie car,but the engine under the hood is what makes my Mustang go. The tires are along for the ride.

3. If you think that a BWS and a BWP are the same ball only a different color,then you have learned nothing from anyone here and all of this and any future wisdom we might have imparted on you is a colossil waste of our valuable time.

You are the reason I'm re-evaluating my position on letting young bowlers into adult leagues until they're at least 20.

[BubbaRay]

[QUOTE=Rowdy;79391]

Don't know about your kiddie car,but the engine under the hood is what makes my Mustang go. The tires are along for the ride.

QUOTE]

Take those tires off of that Mustang and see how far it goes.

[blistershurt]

1. I always grab the strongest ball first. Try it sometime.

2. Don't know about your kiddie car,but the engine under the hood is what makes my Mustang go. The tires are along for the ride.

3. If you think that a BWS and a BWP are the same ball only a different color,then you have learned nothing from anyone here and all of this and any future wisdom we might have imparted on you is a colossil waste of our valuable time.

You are the reason I'm re-evaluating my position on letting young bowlers into adult leagues until they're at least 20.

You are so frustrating. I NEVER SAID THE BWS AND BWP WERE SAME BALL!
I'm attacking YOUR argument saying the core is more dominant than the cover in that, if that was true, the BWS and BWP would practically be the same ball. I KNOW THEY ARENT. I'm NOT stupid. I've spent almost all of my freetime researching things like this, I want to be well versed in the game so I'm NOT one of those stupid kids who walks into a proshop and ends up buying a bunch of stuff that is all super aggressive and drilling it all the same because I dont know what I'm doing.

[Thepainscoming]

thank you blisters, if the core makes so much of a difference than they would be almost the same ball, and rowdy i had a valid point there so idk y u keep trying to make it out like its unvalid.

[Dave34]

Don't know about your kiddie car,but the engine under the hood is what makes my Mustang go. The tires are along for the ride.



Take those tires off of that Mustang and see how far it goes.


Take that engine out of there and see what happens, you need both to accomplish anything. Which pretty much sums up the whole cover vs core debate, at least for me anyway. Why does it matter which is more important, when you need a great matchup of both for a great ball.

[BubbaRay]

Take that engine out of there and see what happens, you need both to accomplish anything. Which pretty much sums up the whole cover vs core debate, at least for me anyway. Why does it matter which is more important, when you need a great matchup of both for a great ball.

Good point Dave

[Rowdy]

thank you blisters, if the core makes so much of a difference than they would be almost the same ball, and rowdy i had a valid point there so idk y u keep trying to make it out like its unvalid.

Unvalid? Have fun in school.:)

[Thepainscoming]

rowdy, i will have NO problem in school, ask bbpearl and he will say the same thing, dont worry about me and school.