No Venom for me

[Sin City Hammer]

:(

I did my practice bowling before the league started, and had my instructor there with me since the pro shop I go to has taken over the orleans pro shop. I told him that I'm looking to change the way I have been bowling after this season is over.

I told him that I was getting a new ball before the winter league starts, and that it was going to be the venom. He said the copperhead from big B or the cell instead. Because of the way I bowl I need a sanded down ball with different action than the venom would give me, and those would be two good options.

When I asked about sanding the venom down, he says that it still wouldn't fit my game.

[Lonewolf300800]

well, Sin, if he's giving you only those two options I'd go with the Cell. Personal opinion for me on the Brunswick balls isn't good because they don't match up to my game and worse yet...they're made in Mexico... If you'd rather stay with Hammer I'd suggest trying an Anger which I'm sure you'd like alot. well, good luck and good bowling.

[OregonBowler03]

wow u must have no revs at all lol

[blistershurt]

The Cell is a smoother ball, but it isnt early rolling still, the ball still has tons of backend, look at the video Britton has up on videoballreviews.com of it, it has a BW type big backend.

I would go with an Anger, it is hands down the best rolly ball I've thrown and it still carries like its a skid/flip ball.

[idlehourlegend]

Ok this is just my personal opinion, some people like them but IMO the Cell is horrible, have seen them thrown by many people (high average and low average bowlers, high revvers and low revvers) and no one has thrown it that great, unless there is a ton of oil or they have no revs at all then its ok but no good IMO at all, it hits like a sponge. Havent seen or heard anything about the Copperhead, I've had success with every company except Track or Roto grip, so I wouldnt be afraid to throw Bruns. because I loved the infernos, but havent heard or seen anything about the copperhead.

[slap]

Sounds like you have a good coach.

There is nothing wrong with Brunswick from a product stand point. If you prefer to buy American made that perfectly fine but it's a different issue thatn the balls being bad. I've added a few brunswick balls to my rotation and they are working fine for me. Chances are I'll have a few more soon...

Early reviews about the copperhead say that it's a very strong ball. Possible too strong OOB for most house shots. The low rg core should give you a different look than your Hammers. (why doesn't Hammer have any low rg cores?) The pk18 cover has been around for ever.

[Sin City Hammer]

I have rev's but it's not no where I want or need it to be yet. And is something that I have been working on for only a short time, I have the ball speed and power but need to increase my rev rate.

There was the suggetion of the ball called the noize and some storm ball as well, but I'm not into the fruit booty scents they provide.

[bluerrpilot]

Even sanded down, the Venom is going to be much longer than both of those balls. Even though the RG on the Cell is slightly higher, its cover is stronger and will recover from the oil sooner. The Copperhead is a much lower RG symmetric ball with a stronger cover. That ball will read the soonest out of them all and produce more overall hook in the middle of the lane

[thaiiii]

I don't want to sound rude in any way, but I hope this doesn't offend you.
just from reading your signature about the # of 200 games you bowled, I would suggest you improve your bowling game and consistency to being able to bowl higher scores then deciding to purchase a new ball that wouldn't do you any good if you can't use it properly.

[thegoldenchild]

If Brunswick makes balls in Mexico, what do they do at their Muskegan, MI location?

[idlehourlegend]

If Brunswick makes balls in Mexico, what do they do at their Muskegan, MI location?

I think thats where the corporate headquarters are.

[Thepainscoming]

yea but their plant is in mexico, it use to be in michigan but its not anymore.

[Razr]

I have a friend who throws the copperhead and it's a strong ball from the reaction he gets from it. He's been using it for the past few weeks in our sport shot league. And my personal opinion I love Brunswick, I've shot both my HG and HS with the total inferno. IMO if you want to improve, I'd just go with what the coach suggest, get your form together, throw the big scores up. That's the way I'd look at it, no doubt I love my hammers, but I'm always open to trying any ball. The reaction from the different company's I feel makes my whole arsenal stronger. :)

[Lonewolf300800]

they no longer make bowling balls there since the entire ball making operation was sent to Mexcio. not sure what's left there now.

[Sin City Hammer]

I don't want to sound rude in any way, but I hope this doesn't offend you.
just from reading your signature about the # of 200 games you bowled, I would suggest you improve your bowling game and consistency to being able to bowl higher scores then deciding to purchase a new ball that wouldn't do you any good if you can't use it properly.

No offense taken.

Those 200 games have happened over the last 2 months, and two of them while bowling straight (which I've done only for this season paying tribute to my late uncle using a twisted fury), the other two came from bowling off the 10-12 board using the BWP.

While I am a stroker, and I am more comfortable going from the 10 to 15 boards, this coming season I've decided and talked over with my coach to change the way I have been and go with a more of a outside line instead.

Which I'll admit, I haven't really done before.

So after trying it for the first time before league on friday, I focused on bowling the way I want to for winter league, and had some problems with throwing the ball not only from a different line, but a different way all together.

Using the BWP at first (which was sanded down to 2000 a while back, I was able to line up with the 10 board, after throwing a few from the 5-7 board and not hitting the pocket, and was able to consistantly hit the pocket from there. I ended up with finishing that game with a 160, which was nice for my first time trying that.

Then my coach suggested that I sand the twisted fury down from oob, so he did for me to a 800, and as I was throwing it first few frames from the 10 board to start, noticed that it wasn't hitting the pocket. So I moved over to the 5 board, and had some problems getting comfortable from throwing so far outside, and even had a couple gutter balls because of it.

But after a few frames got comfortable from there, and ended up with a 100 practice game, followed up with a 147 next game.

Part of my problem while trying to throw from so far outside and while trying to get comfortable in doing all these delivery changes, is turning my wrist and my follow through.

My coach says it will just take some time with getting my wrist memory as he calls it, and feeling comfortable while doing that since right now I'm not, but more practice will help with that.

As for my follow through, the way I have been bowling before trying this way, my hand and arm would go straight up and down while not having alot of rev's on the ball, but it would have some on it. Now, once the turn my wrist and follow through, my hand wants to go a bit left, and my follow through seems to head to my left eye.

So those are the things my coach and I are working on with this new delivery for me, and I wanted a ball that would fit with this delivery.

As for my bowling game, I have improved my overall game and scores over the last month of this season by first putting the team BS behind me, since it's basically just me and one other guy that has been showing up consistantly. One lost his job in week 2, one is pussy-wooped, and another got banned from the alley and casino for pushing a woman away from his mom while practice bowling at midnight.

Once I did that, my scores have been above my league average at that time because of allowing their BS to effect me, and started to have fun once again, my scores increased alot. Over the last month, I have bowled over my league average of 135 each game, and have not had anything less than a 140to my very first league 200 game this past thursday.

I have been much more consistant in picking up my spares, and have been confident enough in the later frames, to where I can actually strike out the 9th and 10th frames, making it easier for the sub we had to finish the games if it was close.

[BubbaRay]

Sin, I totally unmderstand the advice you recieved on the Venom telling you it would fit your game, but the onlky way to find out is throw one. Now think about this, Have you thrown other Widows with the Famousa Gas Mask Cor with Flip block? How did you score with them? Did those balls fit your game? If the answer to these questions are Yes, then I have to assume the Venom would too.

[TenPinSniper]

You coach also drills your stuf right? If so hands down take his advice, especially if you trust him. End of story.

Honest on the Made in ???... I've got my order of preferences of places I'd prefer to buy from before others. Atleast Brunswick is still owned/based in the United States.

[blistershurt]

On a side note: My buddy shot his first sanctioned 300 in league today with his Bite, even with the skid/flip drill on that ball, it is very smooth, I must say.

[Rowdy]

:(

I did my practice bowling before the league started, and had my instructor there with me since the pro shop I go to has taken over the orleans pro shop. I told him that I'm looking to change the way I have been bowling after this season is over.

I told him that I was getting a new ball before the winter league starts, and that it was going to be the venom. He said the copperhead from big B or the cell instead. Because of the way I bowl I need a sanded down ball with different action than the venom would give me, and those would be two good options.

When I asked about sanding the venom down, he says that it still wouldn't fit my game.

First,find a new coach.
Second,WHY would he be pushing those ball so hard??? Sounds to me like there's an overstock problem in the Pro Shop and they want you to help fix it.
Let's see...Copperhead....Cell....Venom. Since you don't have the revs,(your words,not trying to insult here),the Copperhead and the Cell ain't for you. Which leaves..........The Venom!!!
Trust me on this one:It doen't need to be sanded down,either. However,if you want a sanded Venom why don't you just buy a Bite instead.
I'm sure that between Jeff,Bubba and the rest of us we could come up with the drill you're looking for on a ball with a Gas Mask core. And none of that skid/flip stuff either. That ain't gonna cut it for you. I'm thinking something thats not on the drill sheet. PA has a drill in a Widow that might be just what you're looking for,you throw the ball just by coming up the back of it,not a lot of revs required.

[Rowdy]

As for my follow through, the way I have been bowling before trying this way, my hand and arm would go straight up and down while not having alot of rev's on the ball, but it would have some on it. Now, once the turn my wrist and follow through, my hand wants to go a bit left, and my follow through seems to head to my left eye.

You don't turn the wrist,you flip the hand. Big difference. That and it sounds like your arm is not completely straight during the downswing and through release.

Or,this could be a fear of dumping it in the ditch. You see the ditch,open and waiting to swallow up the ball,and pull the shot so it doesn't go there. Only know cures for this are to throw it up the three until you can do it without flinching or move way inside and away from the dreaded channel. The easiest way to toss it up the three is to stop thinking. I'm serious. Just turn the mind off and let the body roll the ball. Line up,look at the spot on the three board and let your mind go blank. Hell,let your vision go fuzzy,too. Sounds crazy,but the closer I have to get to the ditch with the ball,the less I think about what I'm doing. Arm straight,clean release and hey,who threw that ball? Looked like he knew what he was doing. Try it.

[Thepainscoming]

rowdy, y doesn't he have the revs for them. O and another "smart" thing that u posted, the overstock problem, the COPPERHEAD just came out, its not like its been sitting their for months and they are both more aggressive than the venom.

[slap]

It sounds like his coach is on the ball. I can only guess, but perhaps based on his game and the equipment he has now, he next ball should be a mid lane reading , arc shaped solid. Both the Cell and Copperhead fit that general shape.

My guess is the coach throws or is most familiar with those balls. As a coach, we really need to be update on the equipment market. It's easier with the companies we actually throw but we have to be prepared. Sure I know Hammer, Morich and now Brunswick pretty well but if I get a student who prefers Storm or Lanemasters I need to have some background information. I carefully read the ball charts each month in BTM and BJI. Plus I check buddies and videoballreviews for updates.

Back to the OP, if I were going to add Hammer to your coache's list I wouldn't recommend the Venom either. I would suggest an Anger, a dulled Psycho, Bite or perhaps a NM or dulled Blue Vibe.

[blistershurt]

Like what slap said, he is your coach and knows your game, better than any of us, and what he recommended are pretty smooth balls. The Copperhead is smooth, but IMO the Cell isnt that smooth, it can be if you drill it pin down, but in terms of smoothness, the BWB is smoother from what I've seen and thrown. (I own the Cell)
The Cell will sometimes take off EXTREMELY hard on the backend. Lately, mine will start to hook, look like a roll out, then snap very hard and unpredictably.

I'd say a BWB, Anger, Copperhead, Fury if you can find one, or an Orge, or Orge Particle (both smooth, but the Particle will obviously be more so than the original)

I'm getting my NM drilled up in a few weeks and from what I've seen from my buddy who has one, the NM is VERY smooth and predictable, his has the smooth arc drilling on it, and every ball of his that is a strike, you can tell right away when it breaks, it will be very predictable downlane and hit hard (he even hasnt cleaned his on purpose in a long time because he is trying to not have it be incredibly aggressive like it was for him when it was clean or at OOB).

[Young300]

Sin,

I would say, go with what your coach is putting out there. I have seen a lot of both then Copperhead and Cell, esepecially at Junior Gold. Surprisngly though, I find that the Copperhead is a much better fit then what some would think. It has an Anger-esque move to it. It actually is somewhat angular at the break, so the entry angle and carry would work great for you with the "lack of revolutions". It will read in the midlane stronger then any of the balls that you have listed in your sig. and it's on the cheaper side of things.

[Rowdy]

rowdy, y doesn't he have the revs for them. O and another "smart" thing that u posted, the overstock problem, the COPPERHEAD just came out, its not like its been sitting their for months and they are both more aggressive than the venom.

Someday I'm going to drive up there and make you sit and watch me roll a 175+ game WITHOUT A SINGLE FREAKING REV!!!!!!!! None.Zero.Nada.Zilch.Bupkis. I'll just lay it out there and let the core do all the heavy lifting for me.

Pay attention is Physics class this year. It doesn't matter HOW you put an object in motion,once the object has motion it will stay in motion. So therefore,(Keep up,this is where it gets tricky,now),if you put the fingerholes in the correct place on the surface of the ball SO THAT THE CORE WILL BE ANGLED CORRECTLY,you will need NO REVS for the ball to hook. Merely by placing the ball on the lane and letting the end over end rotation of the ball on the lane do the work for you,the core will turn the ball. Will,not might or maybe,will. I've seen it with my own two eyes.

Now,will this shot have any drive through the rack??? Nope. Will it get a strike??? Yup,but only if it's thrown exactly right. That's what revs do,they give the ball drive through the rack and increase your margin of error on the shot.

Bowling Class is dismissed.:)

[bluerrpilot]

Could you please explain how the core of a bowling ball exerts a "force" to make a ball move or change direction

Could you also explain how "friction" plays the key element in how much and to what extent a ball changes direction.

[Sin City Hammer]

Sin, I totally unmderstand the advice you recieved on the Venom telling you it would fit your game, but the onlky way to find out is throw one. Now think about this, Have you thrown other Widows with the Famousa Gas Mask Cor with Flip block? How did you score with them? Did those balls fit your game? If the answer to these questions are Yes, then I have to assume the Venom would too.

The Black Widow line is my favorite from Hammer, and I carry both the BW and BWP in my bag each week. My best game with the BW is 189 throwing from from the 12 board in last summer league, but I wasn't consistant in my scores with it, until it was sanded down a bit.

The BWP is my go to ball period, when I have a few bad frames with the twisted fury, I go to the BWP a frame or two and get myself straightened up. It is the one ball that I'm most comfortable with and seem to have some of my best games with along with the twisted fury now.

Ya, they did fit my game for how I was bowling, and honestly, I liked how the BWP felt from the 10 board while practicing throwing it this new way. So your probably correct about the venom being able to be used this way as well, I just need to get consistant with my release and follow through.

[Rowdy]

Could you please explain how the core of a bowling ball exerts a "force" to make a ball move or change direction

Could you also explain how "friction" plays the key element in how much and to what extent a ball changes direction.

The core of the ball is what makes the ball turn. Since the core is basically in an "unbalanced" condition going down the lane,as the forward energy bleeds off the ball will attempt to "right or balance" itself by turning in the proper direction.

Now think of the coverstock as a set of tires on a Vette. Or Viper. Whatever. A new set of P-Zero's will make your eyes literally pop out of your head when cornering. Way over one G lateral force,which is a bunch.

Now throw a set of cheapo's from Pep Boys on the same car. Will it turn??? Yeah,but not to damn well.

You DO have to have both things,the core and the coverstock,working together to make the ball turn when and how much you want.

Revs are what provides the friction for the coverstock to work properly,plus they provide the energy the core needs to do it's work.

If you want a percentage,I'd put it at 75/25,core to cover. Think I'm wrong??? Then how come there's a thousand different ways to drill a ball??? All the cover in the world won't overcome a bad core placement in relation to the fingerholes. Physics is still physics. And the Laws of Physics don't lie. Ever.

[Rowdy]

Gotta go to the store. Out of smokes.:eek:

BRB.:)

[blistershurt]

The core of the ball is what makes the ball turn. Since the core is basically in an "unbalanced" condition going down the lane,as the forward energy bleeds off the ball will attempt to "right or balance" itself by turning in the proper direction.

Now think of the coverstock as a set of tires on a Vette. Or Viper. Whatever. A new set of P-Zero's will make your eyes literally pop out of your head when cornering. Way over one G lateral force,which is a bunch.

Now throw a set of cheapo's from Pep Boys on the same car. Will it turn??? Yeah,but not to damn well.

You DO have to have both things,the core and the coverstock,working together to make the ball turn when and how much you want.

Revs are what provides the friction for the coverstock to work properly,plus they provide the energy the core needs to do it's work.

If you want a percentage,I'd put it at 75/25,core to cover. Think I'm wrong??? Then how come there's a thousand different ways to drill a ball??? All the cover in the world won't overcome a bad core placement in relation to the fingerholes. Physics is still physics. And the Laws of Physics don't lie. Ever.
dude...you know that the ball doesnt impart side roll on itself? You DID throw urethane stuff before right? The cores in that stuff are weak and you can still get them to hook quite a bit, and its the cover, especially when compared to plastic you can see the difference, and there is no such thing as a bad pin placement, or bad MB placement, but they can get your ball to flare less, and do different things to the shape of your shot, but the coverstock is what ultimately makes the ball hook, otherwise companies wouldnt bother screwing with the covers all the time, upgrading them and making them better, they'd just go with straight plastic with a core, much cheaper to make probably too.

[Sin City Hammer]

It sounds like his coach is on the ball. I can only guess, but perhaps based on his game and the equipment he has now, he next ball should be a mid lane reading , arc shaped solid. Both the Cell and Copperhead fit that general shape.

My guess is the coach throws or is most familiar with those balls. As a coach, we really need to be update on the equipment market. It's easier with the companies we actually throw but we have to be prepared. Sure I know Hammer, Morich and now Brunswick pretty well but if I get a student who prefers Storm or Lanemasters I need to have some background information. I carefully read the ball charts each month in BTM and BJI. Plus I check buddies and videoballreviews for updates.

Back to the OP, if I were going to add Hammer to your coache's list I wouldn't recommend the Venom either. I would suggest an Anger, a dulled Psycho, Bite or perhaps a NM or dulled Blue Vibe.

Thanks Slap, that's basically what he wants me to have because of those reasons, and wants me to have something sanded. Ya, he throws a cell and has had a few 300 games with it, and he even suggested to me the "cream shurbert" ball psycho ball just today for me to use.

Like I told him, as much as I do like Hammer, that in order to improve my game and average, that I would try a different company at least once, and even if it meant going to the much disliked storm company in order to do so.

So I might go with that and work my way up to the vemon that I really want after I get better. I check videoballreview and ballreview as well as buddies quite a bit to try to get some insight on a ball that I might buy.

[Young300]

The core of the ball is what makes the ball turn. Since the core is basically in an "unbalanced" condition going down the lane,as the forward energy bleeds off the ball will attempt to "right or balance" itself by turning in the proper direction.

Now think of the coverstock as a set of tires on a Vette. Or Viper. Whatever. A new set of P-Zero's will make your eyes literally pop out of your head when cornering. Way over one G lateral force,which is a bunch.

Now throw a set of cheapo's from Pep Boys on the same car. Will it turn??? Yeah,but not to damn well.

You DO have to have both things,the core and the coverstock,working together to make the ball turn when and how much you want.

Revs are what provides the friction for the coverstock to work properly,plus they provide the energy the core needs to do it's work.

If you want a percentage,I'd put it at 75/25,core to cover. Think I'm wrong??? Then how come there's a thousand different ways to drill a ball??? All the cover in the world won't overcome a bad core placement in relation to the fingerholes. Physics is still physics. And the Laws of Physics don't lie. Ever.

True, a core does help make the ball move, but I don't believe it is majority core. The core gives the "wobble" to the ball, which APPLIES a CLEAN SLATE of COVERSTOCK to the lane. In doing so, the core HELPS the cover make the move, it doesn't do the majority of work. 65/35 cover to core. The friction the cover makes to the lane makes the biggest difference than the style core. You can see this in coverstock adjustments. The ball makes an earlier move when it is at 1000 abralon than it does at 4000 abralon... Why you ask? Because of the friction difference between the two preps. But the core didn't change... What's your point? The flare was the same on both shots, but the move was different off the break because of the difference in cover preps. Enough said.

This is done now, if you want to debate about it more, take it to another thread.

Sin, go with what you think is right. If you feel that having the Venom at a different cover prep, then make the suggestion to your coach. If he is an educated person, which it sounds like he is, then he should take it into consideration that any ball could fit into the that spot, it just depends on the cover prep.

[bluerrpilot]

The core of the ball is what makes the ball turn.

To quote you in saying Physics don’t lie. The laws of motion say that is incorrect.


1st law of motion : An object’s inertia causes it to continue moving the way it is moving unless it is acted upon by an unbalanced force to change its motion. Every object remains in a state of rest or of uniform motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an outside force

Mass and inertia are NOT FORCES



Since the core is basically in an "unbalanced" condition going down the lane, as the forward energy bleeds off the ball will attempt to "right or balance" itself by turning in the proper direction.


The friction between the ball and the lane cause greater spin or speed and cause the motion of a bowling ball to change.

A sideways spinning bowling ball will have more friction against the lane as it rolls, because the ball is rolling in multiple directions. As the friction increases, the forward motion of the ball will slow and the hook will be more apparent.

[Thepainscoming]

rowdy ur post was completely irrevelant to what i asked you. and i loved how u ignored the second part, guess u cant take being wrong. and rowdy, if u think the core is so much, buy an XXXL, drill it however ur heart desires, go and use it on med/heavy, than take another ball with a reactive cover like the BW since u praise the living crap out of it with the "big hook drill" and tell me the cover only does 25 percent

[idlehourlegend]

rowdy ur post was completely irrevelant to what i asked you. and i loved how u ignored the second part, guess u cant take being wrong. and rowdy, if u think the core is so much, buy an XXXL, drill it however ur heart desires, go and use it on med/heavy, than take another ball with a reactive cover like the BW since u praise the living crap out of it with the "big hook drill" and tell me the cover only does 25 percent

Ok Pain, I get what your trying to get across here, and I agree the cover plays a huge role in the ball motion, but comparing an XXXL and a BWS is like comparing a Ferrari to a Hyundai on the quarter mile. The XXL has the Diamond core in it, the Gas mask with the Flip block will out hook that ball by miles no matter what, if you brought the BWS to 4000 polished or whatever that XXXL is, the BWS would still out hook it by a lot. I understand your comparing the Polyester cover of the XXXL to the Reactive cover of the widow but no matter what cover you put on that diamond core, a gas mask will out hook it at the same grit. Now if you looked at the BWP at oob, and threw another one at 2000 grit, you could see the huge difference in ball motion, its almost a totally other ball, instead of being squirty like at 4000, at 2000 its starts it roll earlier and sets up nicely, that would prove the difference.

[Thepainscoming]

k idle i get what ur saying although disagree with the strength, go get an XXXL and then get something like a Carbide C+ or TSunami and come back and tell me the cover does that little.

[idlehourlegend]

k idle i get what ur saying although disagree with the strength, go get an XXXL and then get something like a Carbide C+ or TSunami and come back and tell me the cover does that little.

Wouldnt spend 230$ minimum on a piece of junk, JMO I dont like the way they roll/hit at all, for 230$ I could have anything from Ebonite or Hammer and like it a lot more and have like 70$ left over for accessories and such. I have thrown the blue Tsunami and it isnt that strong, makes the corner hard but doesnt hit hard. I've heard way too many bad things about Lane #1 and the people that own Lane #1 to want one of those.

[Thepainscoming]

im just giving these as examples to see if he can truly "prove" his bogus theory he has. as that is the only way to truly do it as give a plastic ball, same core, reactive cover, same core compare them.

[idlehourlegend]

im just giving these as examples to see if he can truly "prove" his bogus theory he has. as that is the only way to truly do it as give a plastic ball, same core, reactive cover, same core compare them.

True so the best way would be to compare say the XXXL to the G Force or something. That way it is same core and different cover.

[Thepainscoming]

True so the best way would be to compare say the XXXL to the G Force or something. That way it is same core and different cover.

yup except i think g-force has something different on it, so i would say just go something like the XXXL and carbide because their same core and came out at the same time so its easier to make sure its the same.

[Young300]

How about taking the Razyr and a spare ball? Both pancake cores, which should give you a good look at the difference between the two, along with the differences in covers.

[bluerrpilot]

or a cherry and emerald vibe or a venom and bite or bw and a bwp or a .....

[drw02]

you point about the balls being made in mexico, dont hammer/ebonite have a factory in mexico ? and whats wrong with balls being made in mexico im sure the ball companys would not make the balls in any factory or with any nationality of work force if they thought the workmanship would be below par and have an effect on there product

and if you took the mexican work force away from america 1/2 of america would cease to function!!

[idlehourlegend]

you point about the balls being made in mexico, dont hammer/ebonite have a factory in mexico ? and whats wrong with balls being made in mexico im sure the ball companys would not make the balls in any factory or with any nationality of work force if they thought the workmanship would be below par and have an effect on there product

and if you took the mexican work force away from america 1/2 of america would cease to function!!

Sadly true.....:( :mad: , but not going anywhere near that.

[BubbaRay]

This seems to be going in the same direction it went in last time. Let's let is die here. Let's not let it get Political or Ethnic oriented. Things seem to get out of hand when that happens.


Thanks

[Rowdy]

To quote you in saying Physics don’t lie. The laws of motion say that is incorrect.


1st law of motion : An object’s inertia causes it to continue moving the way it is moving unless it is acted upon by an unbalanced force to change its motion. Every object remains in a state of rest or of uniform motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an outside force


Inertia would be rolling the ball and unbalanced force would be the....the...core.:) Just guessing,mind you.

Look,the core is UNbalanced and it will seek to balance itself as it goes down the lane. It has to. How does it balance itself??? It turns.

[blistershurt]

Rowdy, the core just gives the ball fresh coverstock to roll on, if you put a ball with a core in end over end roll and a ball without a core in end over end roll (both plastic pieces) they will either not hook or move a few boards, because there is no fresh coverstock and hardly any friction to make the ball move.
They even went over this in that Modern Marvels thing on ball tech. The core just wobbles and gives the ball more fresh coverstock. You've heard of the Columbia NoiZe? Well, you've surely heard of the Resurgance. Same cover, different core, both hook TONS, the biggest difference is that the Resurgance's core flares more, thus putting more fresh coverstock on the lane faster, causing the ball to hook sooner. The NoiZe only hooks a few boards less than the Resurgance.

[TenPinSniper]

Exactly, all of the things Blue listed cause the ball to slow down, which is why the ball hooks or turns. (They where Gravity, Friction... don't remember them all.)

If you have ever placed a piece of tape on your PAP, you'd see the ball rotate on that axis for the first part of the lane. Just my guess here... so correct me if this theory is incorrect and you have the actual answer.

To me after see this and doing some thinking on the subject the ball probably does not rotate of the first flare ring until is start roll, thus in the in-balance take over. This would be caused by a few things. PtoP, release, lane condition, ball surface and even the core will have some effect once it starts to get unbalanced.

Part of my thinking is the ball is not rotating off the first until the piece of tape rotates off center. Which to me makes some sense, this would be part of the skid phase.

Does that make sense or does it sound way off?

[bluerrpilot]

sorry Ten I deleted my post

[Sin City Hammer]

Honestly, while I do perfer to have my equipment American Made, I would buy a ball from Big B even though they are having their stuff made in mexico because they have some quality stuff, and as long as it fits either my game or helps we get to where I can improve my game.

I'm not too big on stuff made in china, like the skull ball is, because I've had some bad luck with it.

[JaraTo]

Im not far from Muskegon, remember they still have their billards and bowling scorekeeping equipment here to make.

[Sin City Hammer]

Im not far from Muskegon, remember they still have their billards and bowling scorekeeping equipment here to make.

That's where my family is from, and still have aunts and uncles there. My late uncle Wally used brunwick from the time he started league bowling at 16 until he passed away at 77, and my aunt did along with him. She stopped bowling after he passed away, but finished up the last season the was in.

Go Big Reds.

[Rowdy]

Rowdy, the core just gives the ball fresh coverstock to roll on, if you put a ball with a core in end over end roll and a ball without a core in end over end roll (both plastic pieces) they will either not hook or move a few boards, because there is no fresh coverstock and hardly any friction to make the ball move.
They even went over this in that Modern Marvels thing on ball tech. The core just wobbles and gives the ball more fresh coverstock. You've heard of the Columbia NoiZe? Well, you've surely heard of the Resurgance. Same cover, different core, both hook TONS, the biggest difference is that the Resurgance's core flares more, thus putting more fresh coverstock on the lane faster, causing the ball to hook sooner. The NoiZe only hooks a few boards less than the Resurgance.

I give up. Hope you don't have a science class this year.

[bluerrpilot]

Inertia would be rolling the ball and unbalanced force would be the....the...core.:) Just guessing,mind you.

Look,the core is UNbalanced and it will seek to balance itself as it goes down the lane. It has to. How does it balance itself??? It turns.


.........ROFL